As Far As It Is Translated Correctly

Joseph Smith stated in the 8th Article of Faith, "We believe the Bible to be the word of God, as far as it is translated correctly." In a way, the LDS 8th Article of Faith could also read, "We believe the Bible to be the word of God, as far as it is interpreted correctly." So, does this mean the LDS do not really believe the Bible? Or, does this mean the LDS believe the Bible as far as it is theologically expedient or convenient? Do, the LDS pick and choose what parts of the Bible we believe and which we do not? No way! The LDS Church accept the Bible as 100% word of God. Joseph Smith explained:

"I believe the Bible as it read when it came from the pen of the original writers. Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors" (TPJS, p. 327).
"From sundry revelations which had been received, it was apparent that many points touching the salvation of men, had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled" (TPJS, pp. 9-10).

God warned Moses and the people of Israel in Deut. that they should not add or diminish to His word.

Deut. 4: 2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
Deut. 12: 32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

God restates this command with applies specifically to the Book of Revelation itself and also in a general sense.

Rev. 22: 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

It is the assumption of some Christians that God would never permit the Book of the Bible to be tampered with. God gave the command to not add or subtract to His word. But, is there any commandment that God has given that man has not broken? Is there any commandment that God has given that God has first given and then personally prevented man from breaking. Would God deny man agency in keeping or breaking any of His commandments? God commanded man "thou shalt not kill," but God does not prevent man from killing?

Unfortunately, man has been guilty of adding and subtracting from the Bible. Now, please do not misunderstand. There is nothing at all incorrect in the Bible. The Bible has been tested to be 100% true and faithful. But, Joseph Smith learned the issue with the Bible was that many books of the Bible have been lost, and many passages of scripture that when first given from heaven, were plain and easy to understand, now through the Millennia of scribes and re-translations have become ambiguous.

Joseph Smith discovered while translating the Book of Mormon that many plain and precious parts of the Old Testament had already been "muddled" by 600 BC. Again, it wasn't that anything the Old Testament said was wrong but that certain doctrines were no longer clear or missing entirely. Remember that Israel did not always write using classical Hebrew. Many Old Testament books were likely originally written using Canaanite, or Aramaic (Assyrian) or even Egyptian (Moses was the adopted son of Pharaoh). Whatever the original language, it is well known and accepted that the Ancient Israelites used a script known as Paleo-Hebrew which used the Phoenician alphabet before adopting the "square" Classical Hebrew script. Notwithstanding, the Book of Mormon prophet Lehi, prophesied also that the Bible as they had by 600 BC would not be dimmed any more my time, only that the Bible as we would have it today would contain less books.

1 Ne. 13: 23 ... The book that thou beholdest is a record of the Jews, which contains the covenants of the Lord, which he hath made unto the house of Israel; and it also containeth many of the prophecies of the holy prophets; and it is a record like unto the engravings which are upon the plates of brass, save there are not so many; nevertheless, they contain the covenants of the Lord, which he hath made unto the house of Israel; wherefore, they are of great worth unto the Gentiles.
1 Ne. 13: 26 ... for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.
1 Ne. 5: 19 Wherefore, he said that these plates of brass should never perish; neither should they be dimmed any more by time

While many books of the Old Testament were missing by 600 BC, and much ambiguity in language had crept into the translation, Lehi makes a prediction. Lehi predicts that any official manuscript of the Old Testament that is post 600 BC will be nearly identical to what we have today. And it turns out with the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, that Lehi was correct. Especially the Isaiah scroll which dates to 150-100 BC, is identical to the version in the Old Testament we have today.

Is there evidence for tampering with the Bible? The biggest evidence is that because many plain and precious parts of the Bible had been lost is that Israel fell into apostasy and captivity in 600 BC. And again, because of adding and subtracting, many Jews failed to recognize Christ as their Messiah. The ambiguity which crept into the Bible through centuries of mis-translation opened the door for misinterpretations of what was once clear and concise at the time it was given by God to His prophet.

Some say, God would never permit the Bible to be tampered with. Did God prevent man from corrupting and defiling His temple? Did God prevent man from killing his Apostles and His church from going into apostasy? Did God prevent man from killing His Son Jesus Christ? The Bible and Book of Mormon is a type and shadow of Christ. Just as Christ was crucified and resurrected. The resurrection of God's word with the Book of Mormon and the restoration of the temple and God's Church, represents the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

When Joseph Smith was visited multiple times by the angel Moroni who showed him the location of the Gold Plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated, Moroni quoted from the Bible continually. Joseph Smith noted in many instances that Moroni quoted the Bible differently from the KJV version. It wasn't that the KJV was incorrect, but Moroni's version in many instances was more clear and concise. One instance was concerning Malachi 4:6. Joseph's conclusion about the difference in translation is:

D&C 128:18 I might have rendered a plainer translation to this, but it is sufficiently plain to suit my purpose as it stands.

And this was the motivation for Joseph Smith's desire and inspiration for translating the Bible. Other than a few verses here and there that say "God repented ...." or "leaving the principles of Christ, let us go on to salvation," the goal of Joseph in creating the "Inspired Version" of the Bible was to restore the clarity and plainness to the Bible by interpreting the Bible with the restored light and knowledge he had received by God.

Yes, LDS interpret the Bible through the lens of modern revelation. Without modern revelation we wouldn't understand the many sometimes ambiguous sometimes unambiguous passages which speak of apostasy, restoration, priesthood, and the temple. If any man denies that they read the Bible without any bias or pre-conceived ideas or beliefs, the truth is not in them. This claim is scientifically false and not at all intellectually honest, or just ignorant. While LDS interpret the Bible through the lens of modern revelation, other Christians interpret the Bible through the lens of the 4th-Century Creeds which were the product of doctrine by committee, and 5/4 split-decisions, enforced by the sword, which brought schism to the church and not the intended unity of the faith the Bible promises.

The Book of Mormon is said by Joseph Smith to be the most correct book on Earth. This is not because it is necessarily grammatically error free, but because is clear and plain, and more unambiguous. And as Joseph explained: "a man would get closer to God by abiding by its precepts then by any other book." There are a few LDS offshoots, like the FLDS, and the RLDS churches. But these small splinter groups didn't form over confusion regarding the Book of Mormon.

1 Ne. 13: 25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God.
1 Ne. 14: 26 And also others who have been, to them hath he shown all things, and they have written them; and they are sealed up to come forth in their purity, according to the truth which is in the Lamb, in the own due time of the Lord, unto the house of Israel.

Again, there is no problem with the purity, faithfulness or righteousness of the Bible. The Book of Mormon says the Bible would come from the Jews to the Gentiles in purity. I believe the Bible 100%. The Bible is 100% pure and faithful. The issue here is one of clarity, plainness, brightness and unambiguity which has led to the many Christian denominations and non-denominations and not the unity of faith that the Bible promises. But, thanks to a merciful Father in Heaven, God has restored those plain and precious truths with the Book of Mormon and modern revelation. The Book of Mormon doesn't correct the Bible, it provides clarity.

Priesthood and Priestcraft: Remembering and Forgetting

What is priesthood? Priesthood is the power and authority given by God to man to act in the name of God. Why is priesthood necessary? God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and has infinite time. Therefore, God could answer all of our prayers and do everything necessary for our salvation all Himself; without human participation. But that is not how God operates. Our Heavenly Father often answers prayers through the kindness of others. And when it comes salvation, Our Heavenly Father encourages participation by empowering people to preach His gospel, administer His covenants, and shepherd His flocks. When I say that God allows man to participate in the work of salvation, I do not mean that man contributes to the salvation of himself or anyone else. Only Christ saves, and only the Holy Spirit converts. But Our Father in Heaven blesses man to participate in His work and thereby, witness the power of God as it inspires and empowers others to turn to Christ. In this way, God is saving 2 people for the price of one.

So, how does this divine delegation relate to priesthood authority? There seems to be all kinds of missionaries and shepherds out there preaching all sorts of doctrine and leading people in all different directions. The unauthorized speaking and acting in the name of God has a name. It is called Priestcraft. Religion can create enormous wealth, fame, and influence; and therefore can be a very enticing profession to choose to take up. But, unauthorized acting in the name of God is wrong, is considered Priestcraft, and is acting in the name of God for ones own honor and not for the glory and reverence of God.

Counterfeit religion and priestcraft is not just the fault of the priest. Some people desire false religion. Why would a person desire to believe in a lie? For all its complexity, man is really a simple creature. On any given day, a person is faced with a series of experiences, challenges, and stressors and that person will deal with that stressor in 1 of 2 ways. Influenced by their physiology, and subconscious, they will decide to deal with the problem now (fight), or to deal with it later (flight). Fighting and flighting aren't inherently good or bad of themselves. The flight response can help us escape stressful situations in order to face them in the future when we are better able and better prepared to face them. However, in our society, people pay billions of dollars for chemicals, or activities that don't just help people flee from their problems, but cause them to temporarily forget that the problem even exists. The danger with forgetting is that when the effect or the chemical wears off, they are often less prepared to deal with the issue then before.

How does priestcraft relate to an inappropriate flight response and forgetting? The biggest problem and stressor that man faces is that of our mortality, and eternal destiny of our souls. Eventually, each of us will die, and stand before God to be accountable for what we have done in life. Since, God is perfect, and we are imperfect, that creates a huge problem. In response to that stress, some pay big bucks to others who develop sophisticated scientific and philosophical arguments to deny that God exists. Why would someone do that. They would do that for the same reason people pay for and take other mind-altering substances, those theories and philosophies help them forget the problem. But, when it comes to mind-altering substances, some people tend to prefer uppers to downers.

In a way, Karl Marx and other famous atheists are correct, Religion can be the opiate of the masses. However, I think atheism is closer being an ideological opium while, false religion is more akin to a theological crack cocaine. Because while atheism denies the existence of God, many false religions including false Christian religions deny the problem of sin or the imperfection of man.

Why is the denial of sin a problem? The Bible clearly teaches that all mankind are imperfect and have sinned and therefore have fallen from the glory and perfection of God. But many Christian religions preach that if you just say that you accept Christ as your Savior, that Christ will sweep all your sins under the rug and help you escape the consequences of sin. However, the problem here is that Christ and his Atonement are not just about grace and whited sepulchres. The Atonement of Christ has both the grace and the power to turn man from away from sin, purify him like silver, purge sin from him, and empower man to good works. Christ did not come to save man "in" our sins, but to save man "from" our sins. Christ does help us "escape" from the jaws of hell and the chains of sin. But after escaping, there is no forgetting on our part. Instead, Christ gives us both time, grace, and power to repent, overcome, and eventually stand before God one day both justified and sanctified. It may take the entire 1000 years of the Millennium to finish the work of purification and sanctification within me, but the Bible promises that at that day when I stand before God to be judged:

Matt. 5: 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

1 Jn. 3: 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1 Jn. 4: 17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

While priestcraft leads people to forget, the true priesthood and religion of God helps us escape into the safety of Christ's arms, but at the same time, to remember both the power and grace of Christ, which will prepare us to stand before God perfected in Christ.

Where does your doctrine lead?

In my conversations with Evangelical Christians I have come across 3 disturbing beliefs that are a result of the mixing of apostate thinking with pure doctrine. Remember that correct belief "Orthodoxy" will lead you to correct behavior "Orthopraxis," which will lead you to a correct heart towards God "Orthocardia." A questions we should all ask ourselves is if our belief is leading us closer to or away from God. Additionally, correct belief should also lead us closer to our families and neighbors. Remember the two great commandments to love God and our fellow man? If loving God and our family and neighbors is so important, then the correct doctrines of Christ should increase our love and tolerance towards all mankind in addition to increasing our ability to love God.

#1. Family doesn't matter to God.

In a discussion about the eternal nature and significance of family to God, several of my evangelical friends were attempting to convince me that our immediate temporal family here on Earth was unimportant, temporary, and had no lasting value in the eyes of God.

To the LDS, family is the basic unit of social organization on Earth and in Heaven. Adam and Eve were organized into the first family before The Fall, and existed in that state of innocence and purity in the presence of God with a command to have children. LDS believe that family relationships can endure beyond death and be enjoyed for eternity.

#2. If you are not Christian, you are not my brother.

In a conversation about the pre-existence and eternal nature of the spirit within us, some Evangelical friends of mine were of the opinion that only professing Christians where their brothers and would be saved. This excluded me, because although I profess belief in Jesus Christ as my Savior and Redeemer, they tell me that I don't believe in their version of Jesus which they claim is the correct Jesus.

LDS believe that all mankind are spirit children of our Heavenly Father regardless of color, ethnicity, faith or creed. In fact, if you are Muslim or Hindu or Agnostic and are true and valiant to the truth which God has put in your heart and mind, then you will be both saved and exalted. That is because Christ is truth, and if you believe in truth, you really believe in Christ without knowing you do. God will make allowance for tradition which prevents some from getting the words right when the heart, head, and hands are clean in Christ. The Bible says "where there is no law, there is no sin." Eventually, those who are true and faithful will accept Christ in word to go along with their deeds. And also, the necessary temple work will be done on their behalf to satisfy the technical demands of salvation and exaltation. But, those who are faithful and true to the truth they are given by God will not be denied any blessing.

#3 God does not answer prayer about personal matters.

In a conversation with an Evangelical about personal testimony and revelation, my friend stated:

[there is NOT one passage in Old or New Testament scripture instructing us to inquire of the Lord on what we ought OR ought not to do regarding personal matters!]

[The Bible does NOT model for us a mode of decision-making where we examine our hearts for communication from God telling us what to do.]

And then he sited the Evangelical author Greg Koukl's, “Decision Making and the Will of God:”

[The Bible does NOT teach us to expect subjective internal promptings from the Holy Spirit as any kind of normative guide.]

Other Evangelicals claim that God will inspire with regard to "wisdom" or how to apply the Bible, but not about "knowledge." The only source of spiritual knowledge is the Bible alone. Therefore, they say that you cannot pray about whether something is true or not, but only if you should or shouldn't do something. The Bible teaches that "the Holy Ghost will guide us into all truth;" not just all wisdom. Truth encompasses both knowledge and wisdom. And that is the point of this post is that correct belief leads to correct action, and the Holy Ghost is required together with scripture for both.

LDS, know that Christ says again and again "Ask and ye will receive, knock and it shall be opened unto you." LDS know that God does care about the even the smallest details of our lives. In some instances the answer may be "it mattereth not." But that still is a wonderful answer. If you have been led to believe by your doctrine that God does not care about the intimate details of your life, to not bother praying, or to not expect answers to prayer, maybe your doctrine isn't helping you develop as close of a relationship with God as you think.

Clarification on the Self-Existent Intelligence

Today, I was visiting my wife's parent's ward in Atlanta, GA. During Elders Quorum, we studied lesson 17 from the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith Manual on the "The Great Plan of Salvation." The lesson quoted extensively from the King Follett Discourse and stressed the eternal nature of the "soul", "intelligence", or "mind of man."

In several previous posts I was thinking about the concept of the self-existent, co-eternal "spirit of man," "mind of man," or "intelligence of man." This concept comes from the Book of Abraham, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Book of Mormon as well as the King Follett Discourse by the prophet Joseph Smith.

D&C 93: 29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

Abr. 3:22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

Ether 3: 15-16 And never have I showed myself unto man whom I have created, for never has man believed in me as thou hast. Seest thou that ye are created after mine own image? Yea, even all men were created in the beginning after mine own image. Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh.

During our lesson the teacher brought in several quotes from B.H. Roberts who was an member of the First Quorum of the Seventy, wrote the volume "History of the Church" among other works and was the editor for the "Millennial Star." B.H. Roberts was very educated and a wonderful debater. His teachings were somewhat controversial and sparked some debate within the church. B.H. Roberts was known from writing extensively on the immortality of the soul. And our Elder's Quorum teacher brought in several of his quotes from, "The Seventy's Course in Theology." In one section, B.H. Roberts commented that the King Follett Discourse and Abraham used the words "mind of man," "intelligence," and "the spirit of man" interchangeably, but that despite this it was his opinion that there is a difference. "

I do agree that there is likely some differentiation between the self-existing, co-eternal intelligence and the point at which we became spirit sons and daughters of the Eternal Father. If you go to LDS.org and search using the terms [intelligence AND spirit] you will see other quotes from modern Apostles and Prophets that seem to make this differentiation talking about clothing of our intelligence in a spirit body. But there is no clear mention of mechanism that I have found other than the Brigham Young quote which I quoted in my other post.

Another friend of mine brought out another B.H. Roberts quote concerning the mechanism of creation of the spirit body from intelligence:

"Will the resurrection return you a mere female acquaintance that is not to be the wife of your bosom in eternity? No; God forbid; but it will restore you the wife of your bosom, immortalized, who shall bear children from your own loins in all the worlds to come, and that without pain or sorrow in travail. This, sir, was couched in the promise of Abraham; this makes the promise great." (Defense of the Faith and the Saints, Vol.2, p.276)

It seems from this quote that B.H. Roberts believed in what he calls a "manual theory" as the mechanism by which intelligence is generated (not just formed) by God into spirit. The question and point of this post is; what should we do with this quote? It seems that Elder Roberts is referring to a physical mechanism. I don't have a problem with that. God is the Living God and has the power to both literally physically reproduce (Jesus as the Only Begotten) as well as spiritually pro-create. I am just not sure of the mechanism. And I don't think it matters.

And after looking around, I found a paper by Elder Roberts on "The Immortality of Man" which was published in the "Improvement Era" where he answers a series of questions his so-called "Manual Theory." B.H. Roberts in the article acknowledges his views are only a theory, and the fact that the theory is being debated and explained in the publication clearly suggests that not everything it claims are necessarily core doctrine of the LDS Church. But much of it is.

So, what are the essential truths on this subject? I will try and point out a few things that in my opinion are certain and why, and list what things have not been clarified yet and consequently, I have more of an open-mind regarding.

There exists something within man that is self-existent and co-eternal with God. Scriptures uses words interchangeably to describe what this is. They use "intelligence," "spirit," mind of man," and "light of truth." B.H. Roberts does not comment on the nature or mode or manner of subsistence of this form of existence. But Elder Roberts does talk about the necessary qualities of existence including self-awareness (sentience), ability to recognize self vs. other (individuality), and ability to recognized, judge, and desire light over darkness (will), and self-determination to a limited extent (agency).

Again, much of this is Elder Roberts opinion at the time. But the important concept here is that some element of our existence that is uncreated, self-existent. The reason that the eternal nature of man is important is that God can not be the author and creator of evil. If God made Lucifer who became Satan, then 1. He messed up, 2. He is guilty of giving Satan his will, knowing what he would do with it. 3. Or God rolls the dice and didn't know. God didn't create evil. Satan himself is called the Father of lies.

Because the intelligence, will, or mind of man is self-existent and co-eternal with God, the mind of Satan has always existed and was not created. Therefore, God is not responsible for Satan's rebellion and God is not responsible for our rebellion. God did not give Satan will. Satan possessed will as an inherent characteristic of self-existence. God did know exactly what Satan would do, but gave Lucifer free agency and every opportunity to choose rightly. Satan did not, and only Satan is to blame.

The Bible says that God is said to have made everything "that was made" both visible and invisible. But this suggests that not all things required making. It is also important that if man can truly realize immortality and eternal life then that life would have to exist infinitely forwards and backwards and have no beginning or end.

Another important point is the transition from intelligence to spirit. A few comments from current and past prophets and apostles have spoken of intelligence being clothed with a spirit body. There are even less comments on the mechanism. But the important point the Elder Roberts makes is that whatever the mechanism, the act in making us spirit children of God was an act of generation and not just organization or creation. Generation specifically implies that the very nature of the parent is imbued, endowed, and instilled in the offspring. Whether this occurs through a physical process or the mechanism of divine parenting or both, it doesn't matter. What matters is that God is the literal Father of Spirits, and we are His Spirit Offspring who are composed of the same essence and substance as God Himself and therefore can be endowed with all of our Father's characteristics, powers, and abilities. This power of pro-creation as well as reproduction is what makes God the Only True and Living God and not just the existing God.

Foundation Doctrine and Testimony

There has been considerable debate on the Internet among LDS and our friends of other Christian faiths about what constitutes official LDS Doctrine and what does not. The First Presidency of the LDS Church has released an official statement that reads that not everything a church leader has said on any occasion is necessarily official church doctrine. Instead, some teachings fall under the category of "well-meaning opinion." The criteria for doctrine by the LDS church according to this official statement is that the teaching should be clearly found in LDS scripture, in current LDS Sunday School Manuals, in official First Presidency statements, and/or repeated multiple times by past and present General Authorities of the LDS Church at General Conference and in current church publications such as the Ensign.

Some Christians of other faiths seem to have a difficult time with this statement because the LDS claim its General Authorities are Prophets, Seers, and Revelators like the Apostles and Prophets in the Bible. They tend to expect that these men should be infallible. But the LDS church does not teach a doctrine of infallibility of its leaders. The LDS church teaches that on the whole the Prophet and the majority of the Apostles would never lead the church astray. In other words, not everything said (as we understand it) is necessarily true just because of who these men are. But, if truth is to be revealed by God to man, we know where to look because the Prophets and Apostles of the LDS church hold the keys and authority to receive revelation for the whole church.

That brings up another important issue about the difference between core doctrine and opinion. And that has to do with individual testimony and a personal witness of truth by the Holy Ghost. See, the LDS church does not expect its members to blindly follow our leadership. Every member is expected to pray and ask God if the foundation doctrines of the LDS faith are true and are promised that if we ask with faith that God will reveal the truth of these foundation doctrines to the asker by the Power of the Holy Spirit. In fact, investigators of the LDS church are specifically asked before they are baptized if they have received such a witness and testimony as a prerequisite for baptism. This is done so that the individual member will have an independent witness that the doctrine is true directly from God Himself with no intermediary but Christ. By these means, the individual member develops a personal relationship with Jesus Christ who is our only mediator with the Father. Church leadership assist members with our relationship with Christ and help point us too Christ, but Christ is the only mediator between man and the Father.

So, how does this apply to the conversation with those of other faiths? Some have gone to great effort to scour LDS archives or archival publications such as "Journal of Discourses" and expect LDS to defend any quote they dig up. In some cases, some quotes in older books like "Journal of Discourses" and Orson Pratt's "the Seer" have taken a life of their own. Because some of these quotes are over 100 years old, and have not been commented on by more modern church leaders, it is difficult in many cases to even understand the true meaning and intent of the quote. In fact, many former-LDS I have talked to who question some of these teachings confess that they did not hear these teachings by the missionaries, from LDS scripture, from official LDS Sunday School Manuals, during weekly LDS church services, from current General Authorities of the LDS church in General Conference or in the Ensign (Official monthly LDS publication) or the LDS temple. They routinely say they read it or discovered it on their own.

But there is a more important issue here. And that issue is one of testimony. It is difficult for some to realize that to the LDS, there is a hierarchy of what we know to be true. Others think that everything the LDS church leaders say should exist on the same level. However, LDS believe what we believe because we feel that God Himself has revealed and confirmed to us that certain things are true by the Holy Spirit. What are those things? They are the foundation doctrines of the church such as that God Lives, Jesus is the Christ, the Bible and the Book of Mormon are God's word, that Joseph Smith saw God the Father and Jesus Christ, and that the authority of Christ's church was lost from the Earth and priesthood authority was again restored to Joseph Smith and God continues to call Prophets and Apostles today and continues to reveal His will and word through modern prophets.

Now, it is much easier for LDS to discuss any of these issues because we feel we have a testimony and spiritual witness of them. However, when it comes to other esoteric topics that routinely come up in discussion, it is more difficult because although we might have heard the quotes before, we don't necessarily have a divinely acquired witness and testimony that they are true or that we understand what the original intent of the quote. So, we say that such-and-such a quote in not doctrinal and should be considered a well-intended, well-meaning opinion. What adds to the debate is that often, LDS and non-LDS interpret these quotes differently and both sides lack modern, official commentary on these older quotes by Brigham Young or Orson Pratt, for example.

After assigning a particular quote to the level of "well-meaning opinion," The non-LDS often asks how can we consider so-and-so a prophet or apostle and not accept everything they say as absolute, universal, inviolate, inerrant, infallible truth? The reason is that our testimony and belief in Christ does not come from a faith in these leaders alone. Our testimony in Christ and His gospel comes from a spiritual witness from God through the Holy Spirit through prayer to Our Eternal Father in the name of Jesus Christ. Consequently, there are many topics which individual members have not received a spiritual witness on. We may have a spiritual witness from God that Brigham Young was a prophet so, anything Brigham Young says we will keep in consideration. But until more modern Prophets and Apostles comment on the particular quote in question or I receive a personal witness on a certain topic or about certain specific quote, I really cannot defend them.

I consider such quotes to be well-meaning opinion. In other words, because I believe Brigham Young was a true prophet, I will not outright reject what he said, but without personal revelation, I can neither support or reject the quote. I do try to point out if I think someone, who asks about a quote or teaching, is misinterpreting the quote and I will often give my opinion to help that person understand the context of the teaching. But in many cases, the teaching could be true as we understand it, or it could be inaccurate as we understand it, or maybe we misunderstand what is being said entirely. But the quotes themselves are not going to affect my belief in the LDS faith, because my belief is based on my trust in God alone and my testimony of truth in the core doctrines of the LDS faith which I have received through study, pondering, fasting, prayer, and revelation by God through His Holy Spirit.

There are those which read this and say that while these topics are not core doctrine today, they were the core doctrine then, and the early church members sacrificed to defend them and how could I turn my back on those teachings that the early church members believed in so much they gave their lives for them. Truth is that the core, fundamental doctrines of the church haven't changed.

My wife's has 3/4-th pioneer ancestry, and 1/4-th converted Missouri Mobbocrat ancestry. This ancestry includes surviving members of the Martin and Willie Handcart Company. According to their recorded journals and testimony (which I have and have read), they were converted by the same foundation doctrines that I was. They bore testimony of the same foundation teaching that I do. They were converted based on a spiritual witness that God lives, Jesus is the Christ, the Book of Mormon is God's word, and Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus Christ and was called as a modern-day prophet. I didn't read any testimony by them based on the pet-topics I often hear on the Internet such as blood atonement, or Adam-God. I don't know of anyone who joined the church because of polygamy either. If LDS testimony is conditioned and automatic, then I would expect early LDS members to be testifying of Adam-God right along with everything else if it was such a core doctrine. Fact is, they don't. A good sign that the theory is completely contrived or a grave misunderstanding is that these odd teachings are not taught by other church leadership contemporary with Brigham Young and they are not found in early LDS testimonies.

Again, my evidence against theories like Adam-God and Blood Atonement being core doctrines is that no contemporaries of Brigham Young taught it and no early LDS member mentioned it in their testimony. If LDS testimony is as conditioned and automatic as some claim, then I would expect testimonies back then like "I would like to bare my testimony.... i know the church is true .... I know that Joseph Smith is a prophet ..... I know that the Adam is God .... I know that murderers must confess their sin and have their blood shed on the ground to be saved .... etc."

With regard to polygamy. These ancestors accepted the practice of polygamy only because they had a witness of the other truths of the gospel. The practice was a trial of their faith. And only because of this testimony, did the early Saints accepted that God required polygamy. In the same way, because of my testimony, I accept that God no longer requires that practice.