Justin Martyr on the Relationship of Jesus Christ and God the Father

The problem with the Nicene Creed is one word which says that Christ and the Father are "homousious" or "one substance". This one word has led to the impossible mystery of the Trinity in trying to explain how 2 persons can be 1 being. On the other hand, LDS understand that God the Father and God the Son are just as Justin Martyr teaches in his discussion with Trypho the Jew; 2 numerically distinct persons, personages, and beings; yet 1 God unified in power, essence, will, and purpose. Therefore, The Nicene Creed should probably more correctly read that the Father and Son "are both composed of similar substance", or "are of similar substance" or "are composed of the same substance." It is precisely this understanding of the relationship of God the Son and God the Father and our rejection of the Nicene Creed why the rest of Christianity claims that LDS are not Christian, falsely claim that LDS are polytheists, that we worship another Christ, and claim that we are surely damned to hell.

Justin Martyr comments to Trypho Chapter 56. God who appeared to Moses is distinguished from God the Father
Justin: Reverting to the Scriptures, I shall endeavour to persuade you, that He who is said to have appeared to Abraham, and to Jacob, and to Moses, and who is called God, is distinct from Him who made all things—numerically, I mean, not [distinct] in will. For I affirm that He has never at any time done anything which He who made the world—above whom there is no other God—has not wished Him both to do and to engage Himself with. . . . 'Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever. A sceptre of equity is the sceptre of Your kingdom: You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity: therefore God, even Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your fellows.' If, therefore, you assert that the Holy Spirit calls some other one God and Lord, besides the Father of all things and His Christ, answer me; for I undertake to prove to you from Scriptures themselves, that He whom the Scripture calls Lord is not one of the two angels that went to Sodom, but He who was with them, and is called God, that appeared to Abraham.

Christ is called God and Lord, but is numerically distinct from the Father

Justin Martyr comments to Trypho Chapter LXI—Wisdom is begotten of the Father, as fire from fire."
I shall give you another testimony, my friends,” said I, “from the Scriptures, that God begat before all creatures a Beginning,[who was] a certain rational power [proceeding] from Himself, who is called by the Holy Spirit, now the Glory of the Lord, now the Son, again Wisdom, again an Angel, then God, and then Lord and Logos; and on another occasion He calls Himself Captain, when He appeared in human form to Joshua the son of Nave (Nun). For He can be called by all those names, since He ministers to the Father’s will, and since He was begotten of the Father by an act of will; just as we see happening among ourselves: for when we give out some word, we beget the word; yet not by abscission, so as to lessen the word means both the thinking power or reason which produces ideas and the expression of these ideas. When we utter a thought, the utterance of it does not diminish the power of thought in us, though in one sense the thought has gone away from us. [which remains] in us, when we give it out: and just as we see also happening in the case of a fire, which is not lessened when it has kindled [another], but remains the same; and that which has been kindled by it likewise appears to exist by itself, not diminishing that from which it was kindled. The Word of Wisdom, who is Himself this God begotten of the Father of all things, and Word, and Wisdom, and Power, and the Glory of the Begetter.

Christ was begotten by the Father as one fire is able to kindle another fire which can stand beside the first yet is not divided therefrom nor diminishes from the first. Christ is not a chip off the old block.

Justin Martyr comments to Trypho Chapter LXII.—The words “Let Us make man” agree with the testimony of Proverbs."
And the same sentiment was expressed, my friends, by the word of God [written] by Moses, when it indicated to us, with regard to Him whom it has pointed out, that God speaks in the creation of man with the very same design, in the following words: ‘Let Us make man after our image and likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heaven, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creeping things that creep on the earth. And God created man: after the image of God did He create him; male and female created He them. And God blessed them, and said, Increase and multiply, and fill the earth, and have power over it. And that you may not change the [force of the] words just quoted, and repeat what your teachers assert,—either that God said to Himself, ‘Let Us make,’ just as we, when about to do something, oftentimes say to ourselves, ‘Let us make;’ or that God spoke to the elements, to wit, the earth and other similar substances of which we believe man was formed, ‘Let Us make,’—I shall quote again the words narrated by Moses himself, from which we can indisputably learn that [God] conversed with some one who was numerically distinct from Himself, and also a rational Being. These are the words: ‘And God said, Behold, Adam has become as one of us, to know good and evil.’ In saying, therefore, ‘as one of us,’ [Moses] has declared that [there is a certain] number of persons associated with one another, and that they are at least two. For I would not say that the dogma of that heresy which is said to be among you is true, or that the teachers of it can prove that [God] spoke to angels, or that the human frame was the workmanship of angels. But this Offspring, which was truly brought forth from the Father, was with the Father before all the creatures, and the Father communed with Him; even as the Scripture by Solomon has made clear, that He whom Solomon calls Wisdom, was begotten as a Beginning before all His creatures and as Offspring by God,

God the Son and God the Father are One God in purpose yet numerically distinct and separate persons, personages and rational beings.

Justin Maryr comments to Trypho Chapter Chapter 128 The Word is sent not as an inanimate power, but as a person begotten of the Father's substance
And do not suppose, sirs, that I am speaking superfluously when I repeat these words frequently: but it is because I know that some wish to anticipate these remarks, and to say that the power sent from the Father of all which appeared to Moses, or to Abraham, or to Jacob, is called an Angel because He came to men (for by Him the commands of the Father have been proclaimed to men); is called Glory, because He appears in a vision sometimes that cannot be borne; is called a Man, and a human being, because He appears arrayed in such forms as the Father pleases; and they call Him the Word, because He carries tidings from the Father to men: but maintain that this power is indivisible and inseparable from the Father, just as they say that the light of the sun on earth is indivisible and inseparable from the sun in the heavens; as when it sinks, the light sinks along with it; so the Father, when He chooses, say they, causes His power to spring forth, and when He chooses, He makes it return to Himself. In this way, they teach, He made the angels. But it is proved that there are angels who always exist, and are never reduced to that form out of which they sprang. And that this power which the prophetic word calls God, as has been also amply demonstrated, and Angel, is not numbered [as different] in name only like the light of the sun but is indeed something numerically distinct, I have discussed briefly in what has gone before; when I asserted that this power was begotten from the Father, by His power and will, but not by abscission, as if the essence of the Father were divided; as all other things partitioned and divided are not the same after as before they were divided: and, for the sake of example, I took the case of fires kindled from a fire, which we see to be distinct from it, and yet that from which many can be kindled is by no means made less, but remains the same.

Christ is numerically distinct from the father who is begotten of the Father and not a part divided off from the Father. Christ does not act by His own power but only by the unified Power and Will with God the Father. God the Father and God the Son are numerically distinct but unified in power and essence and will.

Justin Martyr: The Father and Son

Many Evangelical Christians say LDS are not Christian because we worship a different God and Christ. They say because we do not accept the Nicene Creed of the First Ecumenical Council of the Catholic Church in the 3rd Century AD (which is the basis for the Trinity/Triune God Doctrine) that we worship a false Christ and a False God. LDS openly reject the Nicene Creed and and point out that our doctrine better reflects that of 1st Century Christianity than 3rd Century Christianity and tradition as reflected in the Creeds.

Back then when the debate raged over the Nicene Creed. Arians have been described as trying to deny the deity of Christ. While the denial of Jesus as God is wrong, the opponents of the Nicene Creed were correct in their objection to the word "homoousious" or "of the same substance" which is used in the Nicene Creed. While the whole of the Nicene Creed is an accurate description of the Godhead, the word "homoousious" is interpreted to describe a mysterious and incomprehensible relationship between the Father and the Son. Many feel that the mystery of how God can be 3 Persons but 1 Being is wrong because it is by definition incomprehensible. Instead, many felt the Nicene Creed should have said that God the Father and God the Son were not "homousious" or "of the same substance" but "of similar substance". To put it in other words, the Father and the Son could be said to both be composed of pure gold but separate and distinct gold bars. The Son was not divided off from the Father but as Justin Martyr would say, the Son stands next to the Father in the same way a fire can be kindled from another fire and stand separate from the first without diminishing from the first.

A major issue dealt with in Justin's argument with Trypho is that the Jews rejected the Christian's acceptance of Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah because Jesus Christ and the Christians claimed that Christ was God. Before the Babylonian captivity the Jews had a serious problem with Baal and Ashtoreth worship. These idols are excavated in Israel today. But after the captivity, the pendulum swung too far the other way, and the Jews became hyper-monotheists to the point that they could not accept Christ as the Messiah because Christ also claimed he is the Son of God. Therefore, Justin takes care the argue that it was the pre-existent Jesus Christ who appeared in the Old Testament to Moses and Abraham. According to Justin, Jehovah of the Old Testament is Jesus Christ of the New Testament.

Justin Martyr comments to Trypho Chapter 56. God who appeared to Moses is distinguished from God the Father
Justin: Reverting to the Scriptures, I shall endeavour to persuade you, that He who is said to have appeared to Abraham, and to Jacob, and to Moses, and who is called God, is distinct from Him who made all things—numerically, I mean, not [distinct] in will. For I affirm that He has never at any time done anything which He who made the world—above whom there is no other God—has not wished Him both to do and to engage Himself with. . . . It is not on this ground solely that it must be admitted absolutely that some other one is called Lord by the Holy Spirit besides Him who is considered Maker of all things; . . . 'Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever. A sceptre of equity is the sceptre of Your kingdom: You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity: therefore God, even Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your fellows.' If, therefore, you assert that the Holy Spirit calls some other one God and Lord, besides the Father of all things and His Christ, answer me; for I undertake to prove to you from Scriptures themselves, that He whom the Scripture calls Lord is not one of the two angels that went to Sodom, but He who was with them, and is called God, that appeared to Abraham.

Justin Martyr comments to Trypho Chapter LXI—Wisdom is begotten of the Father, as fire from fire.“
I shall give you another testimony, my friends,” said I, “from the Scriptures, that God begat before all creatures a Beginning,[who was] a certain rational power [proceeding] from Himself, who is called by the Holy Spirit, now the Glory of the Lord, now the Son, again Wisdom, again an Angel, then God, and then Lord and Logos; and on another occasion He calls Himself Captain, when He appeared in human form to Joshua the son of Nave (Nun). For He can be called by all those names, since He ministers to the Father’s will, and since He was begotten of the Father by an act of will; just as we see happening among ourselves: for when we give out some word, we beget the word; yet not by abscission, so as to lessen the word means both the thinking power or reason which produces ideas and the expression of these ideas. When we utter a thought, the utterance of it does not diminish the power of thought in us, though in one sense the thought has gone away from us. [which remains] in us, when we give it out: and just as we see also happening in the case of a fire, which is not lessened when it has kindled [another], but remains the same; and that which has been kindled by it likewise appears to exist by itself, not diminishing that from which it was kindled. The Word of Wisdom, who is Himself this God begotten of the Father of all things, and Word, and Wisdom, and Power, and the Glory of the Begetter.

Justin Martyr comments to Trypho Chapter 59. God distinct from the Father conversed with Moses
Justin: Permit me, further, to show you from the book of Exodus how this same One, who is both Angel, and God, and Lord, and man, and who appeared in human form to Abraham and Isaac, appeared in a flame of fire from the bush, and conversed with Moses . . . . Have you perceived, sirs, that this very God whom Moses speaks of as an Angel that talked to him in the flame of fire, declares to Moses that He is the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob?

Justin Martyr comments to Trypho Chapter 75. It is proved that Jesus was the name of God in the book of Exodus
Justin: Moreover, in the book of Exodus we have also perceived that the name of God Himself which, He says, was not revealed to Abraham or to Jacob, was Jesus, and was declared mysteriously through Moses. Thus it is written: 'And the Lord spoke to Moses, Say to this people, Behold, I send My angel before your face, to keep you in the way, to bring you into the land which I have prepared for you. Give heed to Him, and obey Him; do not disobey Him. For He will not draw back from you; for My name is in Him.' Exodus 23:20-21 Now understand that He who led your fathers into the land is called by this name Jesus, and first called Auses Numbers 13:16. (Oshea). For if you shall understand this, you shall likewise perceive that the name of Him who said to Moses, 'for My name is in Him,' was Jesus.

Justin Martyr comments to Trypho Chapter LXII.—The words “Let Us make man” agree with the testimony of Proverbs."
And the same sentiment was expressed, my friends, by the word of God [written] by Moses, when it indicated to us, with regard to Him whom it has pointed out, that God speaks in the creation of man with the very same design, in the following words: ‘Let Us make man after our image and likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heaven, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creeping things that creep on the earth. And God created man: after the image of God did He create him; male and female created He them. And God blessed them, and said, Increase and multiply, and fill the earth, and have power over it. And that you may not change the [force of the] words just quoted, and repeat what your teachers assert,—either that God said to Himself, ‘Let Us make,’ just as we, when about to do something, oftentimes say to ourselves, ‘Let us make;’ or that God spoke to the elements, to wit, the earth and other similar substances of which we believe man was formed, ‘Let Us make,’—I shall quote again the words narrated by Moses himself, from which we can indisputably learn that [God] conversed with some one who was numerically distinct from Himself, and also a rational Being. These are the words: ‘And God said, Behold, Adam has become as one of us, to know good and evil.’ In saying, therefore, ‘as one of us,’ [Moses] has declared that [there is a certain] number of persons associated with one another, and that they are at least two. For I would not say that the dogma of that heresy which is said to be among you is true, or that the teachers of it can prove that [God] spoke to angels, or that the human frame was the workmanship of angels. But this Offspring, which was truly brought forth from the Father, was with the Father before all the creatures, and the Father communed with Him; even as the Scripture by Solomon has made clear, that He whom Solomon calls Wisdom, was begotten as a Beginning before all His creatures and as Offspring by God,

Justin Maryr comments to Trypho Chapter Chapter 128 The Word is sent not as an inanimate power, but as a person begotten of the Father's substance
And do not suppose, sirs, that I am speaking superfluously when I repeat these words frequently: but it is because I know that some wish to anticipate these remarks, and to say that the power sent from the Father of all which appeared to Moses, or to Abraham, or to Jacob, is called an Angel because He came to men (for by Him the commands of the Father have been proclaimed to men); is called Glory, because He appears in a vision sometimes that cannot be borne; is called a Man, and a human being, because He appears arrayed in such forms as the Father pleases; and they call Him the Word, because He carries tidings from the Father to men: but maintain that this power is indivisible and inseparable from the Father, just as they say that the light of the sun on earth is indivisible and inseparable from the sun in the heavens; as when it sinks, the light sinks along with it; so the Father, when He chooses, say they, causes His power to spring forth, and when He chooses, He makes it return to Himself. In this way, they teach, He made the angels. But it is proved that there are angels who always exist, and are never reduced to that form out of which they sprang. And that this power which the prophetic word calls God, as has been also amply demonstrated, and Angel, is not numbered [as different] in name only like the light of the sun but is indeed something numerically distinct, I have discussed briefly in what has gone before; when I asserted that this power was begotten from the Father, by His power and will, but not by abscission, as if the essence of the Father were divided; as all other things partitioned and divided are not the same after as before they were divided: and, for the sake of example, I took the case of fires kindled from a fire, which we see to be distinct from it, and yet that from which many can be kindled is by no means made less, but remains the same.

While some say that Justin is making a point here about the Father and Son being one essence. What Justin is saying is that the Son is not a chip off the ol' block or a piece of the Father. The Father is complete and separate alone. Yet while the Son stands as a separate Being and Person and Personage and Individual of the Father, the Son did nothing of Himself, but came to do the will of the Father, speak the words of the Father, and manifest the full power of the Father in all things. Therefore, God the Son is one in purpose, unified will, and power with God the Father.

Justin Martyr discusses several other interesting doctrinal points such as Jewish scribes altering the Septuagint and the Old Testament and removing plain and precious portions. Justin also discusses the office and work of the Seventy. And Justin discusses why Christians worship on Sunday, the 8th day or first day of the week instead of the Jewish Sabbath.

Trinity: Logical Proof or Contradiction

Some of my Evangelical Christian friends have tried to use the following argument to support their belief that God the Father is only a spiritual reality and has not physicality or physical reality. They used the following New Testament scriptures as a kind of logical expression that they solved to say that God the Father was spirit only in favor of the Trinity doctrine put forth in the Nicene Creed. Here are the three scriptures:

1. John 4: 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
2. Luke 24: 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
3. John 10: 30 I and my Father are one.

Using these three scriptures, I asked my wife's cousin who is currently working on a PhD in Methematical Logic if he could express these statements as logical mathematical arguments, and what would be the result? He responded with the following in an email.

Your scripture/logic question is interesting. Here is how I would formalize the argument, and the result is a contradiction.

Definitions:
Sx: x is a spirit
Bx: x is/has a body
g: God
j: Jesus

Logical symbols:
^: conjunction (AND)
~: negation (NOT)
->: implication (IF/THEN)
<->: iff (IF-AND-ONLY-IF)(x)(p(x)): for all x, p is true of x (where p is some logical formula);the overall formula is said to be universally quantified
=: equality

Premises:
John 4:24 (ignoring the part about worshiping God in spirit and truth): Sg
Luke 24:39: Bj^[(x)(Sx -> ~Bx)]
John 10:30: g = j

The most natural deduction (to me, anyway) is the following:
1. Sg Given
2. Bj^[(x)(Sx -> ~Bx)] Given
3. g = j Given
4. (x)(y)(x=y <-> [(F)(Fx <-> Fy)])

Leibniz's law:
Any x and y are equal/identical iff for every property F, F holds of x iff F holds of y (i.e., equality means having all identical properties)

5. g=j <-> [(F)(Fg <-> Fj)] from 4 by axiom for universal specialization
6. (F)(Fg <-> Fj) from 3 and 5 by Modus Ponens
7. Sg <-> Sj from 6 by axiom for universal specialization
8. Sj from 1 and 7 by Modus Ponens
9. (x)(Sx -> ~Bx) from 2 by axiom for eliminating conjunction
10. Sj -> ~Bj from 9 by axiom for universal specialization
11. ~Bj from 8 and 10 by Modus Ponens
12. Bj from 2 by axiom for eliminating conjunction
13. ~Bj^Bj (a contradiction) from 11 and 12 by axiom for introducing conjunction.

Most logicians, including me, prefer to avoid contradictions (though there is a branch of logic that studies "paraconsistent" systems), so I would disagree if your friend claims that these verses, taken together,constitute an obvious, meaningful argument. I think that when logic breaks down in the real world, it is usually because there are some hidden axiomsa nd subtleties of definition. Probably both you and your friend would be reluctant to say that one or more of these verses is false, so resolution of the contradiction hinges on the interpretation of key phrases. The verse from Luke seems entirely straightforward, so in a Bill Clinton-esque way the matter depends on what "is" (or "are") means. Again, "God is a Spirit" seems straight forward (even if we don't know exactly what a spirit is, from Luke we know that it doesn't have flesh and bones), so I would conclude that "I and my Father are one" does not mean equality in the sense of Leibniz. Whether that is consistent with the doctrine of the Trinity would be something your friend would have to (try to) answer.

Take care, William

I also had a mathematical and logic computer science professional try the same experiment letting him interpret and convert the 3 verses into logical arguments in computer language and he came up with the same result.

What can we conclude from this exercise? The point here is that it is not logical for logical Evangelicals to use these 3 verses of scripture as logical arguments to somehow prove the doctrine of the Trinity and that God the Father is only a spiritual reality and only a spirit.

The truth is that the nature of God is the unification and harmonization of both the spiritual and physical and that God is both a spiritual and physical reality. This may seem trivial, but it happens to be the number one misunderstanding concerning the nature of God and leads many Christians to infer and interpret other scriptural truths as only spiritual realities. Many Evangelicals extrapolate this misunderstanding and apply it to their understanding of the Church not being an organization or hierarchy but only a spiritual body of believers. They extrapolate this misunderstanding to believe that their exists a general priesthood of all believers but ignore that there also is order and an actual priesthood authority. Evangelicals see the temple as the body of the believer only, and salvation is by grace without the need for any type of works, repentance, or ordinances. All these spiritual points are true, and the correct spiritual reality, but they are not correct apart from the associated physical reality. LDS doctrine recognizes both the physical and the spiritual reality of all these truths.

When you consider the historical context of John 4: 24, the verse stresses the spiritual nature of God. That is because the Jews being spoken too had swung the pendulum, with regard to their understanding of the nature of God, too far towards the physical. They knew God spoke to Moses face to face, and they were looking for the Messiah who would come and physically and politically redeem Israel from the oppression of Rome. And the Jews misunderstood the physical and outward requirements of the Law of Moses thinking they resulted in salvation alone. John 4:24 was spoken to remind the Jews that God was also a spirit and those that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth, word and deed, outward ordinances, and inward commitment and devotion. grace and works.

Now Satan has deceived many Christians by getting the pendulum of belief to swing too far to the spiritual side of things to the exclusion of any physical reality to Scripture and Religion. John warned of this in the Bible saying that the spirit of the Anti-Christ would deny that Christ came in the flesh, and that the mouth of the Beast would blaspheme the tabernacle (physicality) of God. This kind of things started with the Gnostic's but is perpetuated thanks to the Nicene and other non-Biblical Creeds that were contentiously debated, politicked, voted upon and ratified by slim majorities and split decisions resulting in later schizms and not a promised unity of the faith. Unfortunately, voting on doctrine doesn't make that doctrine true and voting does not represent the pattern God has set forth to reveal truth to man.

I hope that accepting the physical and spiritual nature of God and God the Father will lead all Christians to a proper understanding of the physical and spiritual realities of all doctrine and all truth. While my Evangelical friends were trying to use these 3 verses to make a logical argument to say that the Father is spirit only. Another scripture, Matt. 5: 48 says:

Matt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Therefore, with this understanding I would reject a recent statement by Ravi Zarcharias that only the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost together constitute the perfect expression of deity. Matt 5 says that God is perfect and complete alone. Christ came to perfect man and not the Father.

Also, Justin Martyr to Trypho used the creation story in Genesis which says: "Let us make man in our image" and "Now man has become as one of us" to disprove the "Royal We" argument and to prove that the Father and the Son are seperate, distinct, rational and intelligent individuals, persons, personages, and beings present. Even Pastor Ken Clause on the Luthern Hour radio program recently taught that the Father and the Son were separate and distinct "individuals".Therefore the word "homoousios" in the Nicene Creed saying that God the Father and the Son Jesus Christ are "One Substance." is incorrect and Stephen in the New Testament and Joseph Smith really did see God the Son standing on the right hand of God the Father.

Temporal and Spiritual

1 Ne. 15: 31-32 And they said unto me: Doth this thing mean the torment of the body in the days of probation, or doth it mean the final state of the soul after the death of the temporal body, or doth it speak of the things which are temporal? And it came to pass that I said unto them that it was a representation of things both temporal and spiritual; for the day should come that they must be judged of their works, yea, even the works which were done by the temporal body in their days of probation.

I have been thinking a lot lately about what it is that differentiates LDS from other Christians. As you look back at the history of the Christianity, we see the formation of the great Catholic and Orthodox churches with their ritual splendor, ordinances, tradition, and hierarchy. We then see the formation of smaller protestant denominations and non-denominations which have fractured off that have developed a kind of reactionary doctrine against the Catholic Church. While Catholics consider papal authority to be a major basis of their belief, Evangelicals interpret the Bible to teach no hierarchy and no authority but Jesus Himself (except when it comes to collecting tithing).

LDS on the other hand, do not consider authority and hierarchy to be in conflict or mutually exclusive to the "priesthood of all believers" and our individual ability to "approach the throne of God with boldness" as they say. As Nephi says, the things taught in scripture are both temporal and spiritual. And the same thing applies to the concept of the temple, church, priesthood and ultimately God Himself.

This conflict over temporal vs. spiritual is at the heart of the gospel divide even going back to the early church. Back then the Apostles warned against the doctrine of the Gnostic's who denied the physical resurrection of Christ. Such a denial was said to be of the spirit of the antichrist. Why did they deny Christ's resurrection? They rejected it because if Christ had redeemed His physical body and was viewed as the perfect revelation of the Father, then that would mean that the Father also consisted of the perfect harmonization of spirituality and physicality. But to the Gnostic's, matter was inherently evil.

The truth is that nothing is inherently evil but just corruptible. In the beginning we learn that God created all things and he looked upon the whole of creation and declared "It is good." But Christ sanctifies what Satan has corrupted and makes the corruptible incorruptible. Therefore since God encompasses all that is good, and tangible matter is good, therefore God must consist of both a glorified body and spirit. God is spirit, but God is not only just spirit and those who come to God must learn to worship him in spirit (talk) and in truth (walk).

It is this key truth concerning the unifying of the temporal and spiritual which is transcended by the very nature of God which is manifest in every aspect of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The concept of the Church of Christ is an ordered organization but also is the body of believers. The concept of the temple is a sacred structure which administers sacred covenants and serves as a parable and reminder of sacred truth but also represents the indwelling of the Holy Spirit within each individual. The priesthood is divine authority given by God to man to administer the covenants and gifts of God allowing man to act and speak in the name of God, as well as being a power and authority available to all believers who have been called and ordained by the laying on of hands to empower them to approach the throne of God and dwell in His presence. The concept of repentance consists of tangible steps which assist the believer in escaping and forsaking sin as well as the spiritual motivation of the love of God which makes sin loose its enticement.

Again and again in scripture we see the pattern of the heavenly and the earthly manifest. The Law of Moses, Bible prophecy, and the parables themselves are true occurrences which teach and represent a greater spiritual truth. But the lesson of the Old Testament vs. the New Testament was not that the spiritual destroyed the temporal. Christ said He had not come to destroy the law and the prophets but to fulfill. What the New Testament was about was about a restoration of the spiritual and higher law and a unification and a sanctification of the physical.

The Masonic signs of the compass and square represent this truth very well. A compass is used to draw circles. Circles are a shape found in heaven. So, the compass is used to represent heavenly things. The sign of the square is used to draw horizontal lines. The horizon and horizontal lines are something we see terrestrially and therefore represents the Earth and the physical aspect of existence. Therefore the compass and square together represents the unification of the spiritual and physical, male and female, and represents the true nature of God and is reflected in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Beast and Its Image

The following presents a very interesting interpretation of the following scripture:

Rev. 14:9-11 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

John is using 3 symbols here. The first is the beast, the second is the image of the beast, and the third in the mark of the Beast. Now John warns us that the true believers are not to worship the beast or its image. Now we know from Daniel that the 7-headed, 10-horned beast is Rome. In the last days it would represent the Catholic Church. In Daniel 7, Daniel comments that Rome at the time of Christ would fight against the Saints, wear them out, and prevail against them. Also, that the Roman Empire would seek to pervert the doctrine by changing the times and laws of the gospel. We see this happen after Emperor Constantine makes Catholicism the official religion of the Roman Empire.

Dan 7 :21, 25 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; . . . And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

So, the Beast is Rome and the Catholic Church today. But what does the image represent? The image is the Protestantism and Evangelicalism. Protestant churches broke off from the Catholic Church because many recognized that the teachings of the church did not fit what the Bible taught. Unfortunately, the Protestant Reformation which produced the many Protestant Denominations and Non-Denominations didn't fall far from the tree. And John likens these churches to an image of the original.

Lastly we have the mark of the Beast which both those who worship the Beast (Catholic Church) or its image (Protestantism and Evangelicalism) take upon themselves. Thinking about what Catholicism and Protestantism have in common, only one doctrine comes to mind. That common aspect is their belief in the Trinity Doctrine and the Nicene Creed which stems from the First Ecumenical Council of the Catholic Church. According to this article, belief in the Trinity Doctrine is the Mark of the Beast.

What is wrong with the Trinity Doctrine and the Nicene Creed? The Nicene Creed only has one word and concept that is not from the Bible. That word is "Homousios" and it means that Heavenly Father, the Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are of one undivided substance. And that little addition causes all sorts of problems when it comes to a proper understanding of the true nature of God, the relationship of the Father and the Son, and man's relationship to God.

When it comes to the Nicene Creed and the Trinity Doctine, I only take exception with the word "Homousios" meaning the Father and Son are One undivided substance. The LDS understanding is very close to the Trinity Doctrine. But remember a little leaven, leaveneth the whole lump. Latter-Day Saints proclaim the divinity of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God. According to the LDS Godhead: God is 3 Persons, 3 Personages, and 1 God. The Following scriptures illustrate how the Bible teaches that God the Father and God the Son are One God in purpose but 2 distinct personages as Joseph Smith saw in the First Vision.

John 14: 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Jesus Christ who is God and who is with the Father says the Father is greater then Himself.

Acts 7: 55-56 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Stephen sees Jesus Christ standing on the right hand of the Father.

Gen. 1: 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

God the Father and the Son converse about the creation of man.

Gen. 3: 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

God the Father and the Son note that man has come to know good as they do suggesting that God is speaking to an intelligent being who is numerically distinct from Himself according to Justin Martyr to Trypho.

Matt. 26: 39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Jesus Christ expresses that his will is distinct, separate but unified with the Father

Matt. 5: 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The Father is perfect and complete alone. The separation of Jesus Christ from the Father does not diminish the Father.

Matt. 3: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

At the Baptism of Jesus Christ, the heavens open and the voice of Heavenly Father is heard separate from the Son.

John 17: 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Christ prays to the Father that His Apostles may be one and unified in purpose as He is one and unified with the Father.

The Bible, Justin Martyr and Monolatrism

Evangelicals and many Jews claim that the traditional or Orthodox Judeo-Christian belief was strictly monotheistic. That there is only one being in the universe rightly called God. However, this belief led to unfortunate consequences. The Jews used this belief as a pretext to reject Jesus Christ who didn't just claim Messiah-ship, but also claimed he was a God. And this belief has led Evangelicals and Catholics to adopt a creed that describes God in terms that cannot be explained or comprehended. According to the Nicene and other Creeds, God is 3 persons, but only 1 undivided substance and being. While Christians reject modalism (belief that 3 persons of the godhead are the 3 manifestations of God), there isn't a logical way to explain how 3 persons can be the same being. However, looking at the Bible and explanations from the First-Century Christian Fathers, it turns out the Old Testament and the Apostles of the New Testament were not teaching a strict hypermonothesism but monolatrism. Monolatrism is not polytheism or henothesism. What is it? Monolatrism is the belief that while there may exist other beings that are gods in the universe, a monolatrist only worships one God. So, if monolatrism is taught in the Old and New Testament, is there evidence?

Elohim means "the gods" or the almighties" or "the omnipotents." Many claim that the use of the pleural for a singular God is meant to reverence His greatness and majesty. This is also referred to as the "royal we". The problem with the "royal we" together with using the pleural form of "the almighties" or "the omnipotents" as a reference for the Father is that Justin Martyr forgets to mention this when he explaining to Trypho about the statements in the creation story in Genesis.

Justin Martyr quotes Genesis to Trypho: "Let us make man in our image and after our likeness" and then "Man has become as one of us to know good and evil."He then tells Trypho that there are at least 2 "numerically distinct intelligent beings present" and that God is not talking to himself, or the elements, or the angels. So, it seems that Justin is making a case that the pleural form Elohim which means "the gods" actually means what it says. Also, we should notice that Trypho didn't argue this point either. (Justin Maryr comments to Trypho Chapter 61-62)

So, how would these verses read if we used the pleural form?

1. In the beginning [the Gods] created the heaven and the earth.
2. And [the gods] said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness
3. And the [head of the Gods]* said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil

*Lord God = Jehovah Elohim = the "self-existent one" or "head" of the Gods

But what about the several verses in Isaiah that saying God is one, and there is no God beside me, and God doesn't know any other Gods or that before and after God was no God formed? (Isa. 43: 10 , Isa. 44: 6 , Isa. 44: 8 ,Isa. 45: 5-6, 14, 21-22, Isa. 46: 9) It was these scriptures which led Jews to reject Christ. Also, in context, Isaiah is saying there is only one God who will save Israel and only one God that Israel should worship. The significance of Isaiah and other in stressing the oneness of God, is that the Gods (God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost) are unified in purpose, and not numerically one being.

Justin also discussed Psalms 82 and gives an interesting version of this scripture.

Psalm 82:1 (KJV): God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

Justin Martyr Chapter CXXIV.--Christians are the sons of God. And when I saw that they were perturbed because I said that we are the sons of God, I anticipated their questioning, and said, "Listen, sirs, how the Holy Ghost speaks of this people, saying that they are all sons of the Highest; and how this very Christ will be present in their assembly, rendering judgment to all men. The words are spoken by David, and are, according to your version of them, thus: `God standeth in the congregation of gods; He judgeth among the gods. How long do ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Judge for the orphan and the poor, and do justice to the humble and needy. Deliver the needy, and save the poor out of the hand of the wicked. They know not, neither have they understood; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth shall be shaken. I said, Ye are gods, and are all children of the Most High. But ye die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God! judge the earth, for Thou shalt inherit all nations.' But in the version of the Seventy it is written,`Behold, ye die like men, and fall like one of the princes,' in order to manifest the disobedience of men,--I mean of Adam and Eve,--and the fall of one of the princes, i.e., of him who was called the serpent, who fell with a great overthrow, because he deceived Eve. But as my discourse is not intended to touch on this point, but to prove to you that the Holy Ghost reproaches men because they were made like God, free from suffering and death, provided that they kept His commandments, and were deemed deserving of the name of His sons, and yet they, becoming like Adam and Eve, work out death for themselves; let the interpretation of the Psalm be held just as you wish, yet thereby it is demonstrated that all men are deemed worthy of becoming "gods," and of having power to become sons of the Highest; and shall be each by himself judged and condemned like Adam and Eve. Now I have proved at length that Christ is called God.

Evangelicals argue that Psalm 82 is not saying that men are gods, but that the word for judge and god are interchangeable and that it is just a word play. But Justin Martyr must not have gotten the memo, because he doesn't seem to know anything about this. He accepts the words of scripture on face value. In fact, he gives a clearer version of Palsm 82 than the KJV and correctly translates "Elohim" as gods instead of mighty which clarifies this passage as referring to the divine heavenly council (sod qedoshim).

What is the point here? The key doctrine that Justin is teaching is that while only Chistians will ultimately be choosen as the children of God and "called gods;" all men are deemed worthy of becoming "gods," and of having power to become sons of the Highest. However, as Justing explains, all men have fallen, and will die like Adam and Eve and must accept the adoption of Christ. But all men were "deemed deserving of the name of His sons" originally before falling by sin. This doctrine reminds believers of the infinite potential of all mankind regardless of status.

1 Cor 8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Paul also makes in indirect reference to monolatrism in referrance about idol worship. Here Paul is referring to those idols when he first says "For though there be that are called gods" referring to the idols. But the parenthetical "(as there be gods many and lords many)" is validating the teaching in the Bible that there are, in actual fact, many beings in the heavens considered gods and lords, but only one Being who we worship as God, and one being we worship as Lord who is the Father and the Son Jesus Christ. This is not polytheism or henotheism but a kind of monothesism called monolatrism. While there may be many beings in heaven who are considered gods and children of god, we worship only one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ.

Justin Martyr: "Against Trinity"

The Church of Jesus Christ is not a Protestant religion but restored Christianity. We do not claim to be a branch or offshoot of the Catholic Church because if that church is incorrect, then all branches off it are incorrect together. The LDS Church interpret the Bible foretelling a falling away or apostasy of Christ's church (2 Thes. 2: 3). Just like God the Father allowed His Son to be crucified, God also allowed man to desecrate His temple, martyr His Apostles, and destroy His church. But just as Christ was resurrected, so too would God raise His temple, Church, and Holy Word in the last days before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (Dan. 2: 28, 44).

But, the original Church, doctrine, and authority did not disappear immediately after the martyrdom of the Apostles. The LDS Church does not accept the many so-called Orthodox Christian Creeds like the doctrine of the Trinity which was established at the Council of Nicaea in the 325. The LDS Church General Authorities have claimed that LDS Doctrine is more similar to 1st-Century Christian doctrine than 3rd-Century Christian Doctrine.

Other than the New Testament itself, there is a wonderful collection of writings from the earliest Bishops of the Primitive Christian Church. These Early Church Fathers such as Polycarp, Ignatius, and Clement knew the Apostles personally and were appointed to shepherd several local churches. While not scripture, it is fascinating to read through the writing of these Early Church Fathers and identify doctrines such as the 3-degrees of glory, and priesthood organization and hierarchy which are unique to the LDS Church today.

Another example of doctrine by the Early Christian Fathers being more similar to LDS then the Protestant, is concerning God. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, continually refers to Christ as the First-Born of the Father and Church as the Church of the First-Born. LDS recognize that Christ was the first generative spirit-creation of God the Father, since before the beginning in addition to being the Only Begotten Son of God according to the flesh. In addition to the words of Bishop Ignatius, Justin Martyr, also a 1st-Century Christian, also speaks on the nature of the God head. In his debate with the Trypho (a Jew), he is trying to persuade him from the Old Testament that while they believe in the same God, we still need to believe and accept Jesus Christ as God and the Son of God.

So, the question here between LDS and Evangelicals concerning the Trinity as explained in the Nicene Creed is whether God and Christ are the same being or two separate and distinct beings. The LDS belief in the God Head is very similar to the Nicene Creed except on one issue. The Nicene Creed claims that God and the Son are not only "One God", but they are of "One Substance." LDS and other Christian scholars confess that this part of the Nicene Creed on being "One Substance" has no Biblical support and it is the part of the Trinity Doctrine that believers in the Trinity cannot explain. LDS, on the other hand can easily explain how God the Father and God the Son, while separate beings, can constitute one God by understanding their oneness and unity of purpose.

LDS do believe that God the Father, God, the Son Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Ghost are all divine, are all God, and constitute One God in purpose. But we believe that the Father and Son are 3 distinct entities in name, in person, in being, in substance, and in unified will. When Joseph Smith had his First Vision of the Father and the Son, Joseph saw (after Satan gathered darkness and seized his tongue to prevent him from praying) the glory of God as a pillar of light and fire, and in that light he saw 2 distinct personages who were in the appearance of men with glorified and tangible bodies. The same thing that Stephen saw prior to being stoned to death. Stephen looked up into heaven and declared that he "saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God."

Justin Maryr comments to Trypho Chapter LXI—Wisdom is begotten of the Father, as fire from fire.“

I shall give you another testimony, my friends,” said I, “from the Scriptures, that God begat before all creatures a Beginning,[who was] a certain rational power [proceeding] from Himself, who is called by the Holy Spirit, now the Glory of the Lord, now the Son, again Wisdom, again an Angel, then God, and then Lord and Logos; and on another occasion He calls Himself Captain, when He appeared in human form to Joshua the son of Nave (Nun). For He can be called by all those names, since He ministers to the Father’s will, and since He was begotten of the Father by an act of will; just as we see happening among ourselves: for when we give out some word, we beget the word; yet not by abscission, so as to lessen the word means both the thinking power or reason which produces ideas and the expression of these ideas. When we utter a thought, the utterance of it does not diminish the power of thought in us, though in one sense the thought has gone away from us. [which remains] in us, when we give it out: and just as we see also happening in the case of a fire, which is not lessened when it has kindled [another], but remains the same; and that which has been kindled by it likewise appears to exist by itself, not diminishing that from which it was kindled. The Word of Wisdom, who is Himself this God begotten of the Father of all things, and Word, and Wisdom, and Power, and the Glory of the Begetter.

What do we learn from this? This is speaking about the creation or the spiritual begetting of Christ as the First-Born creation of God the Father who was Jehovah of the Old Testament who appeared to Joshua (in human form). First we lean that Christ was the first spiritual offspring of God the Father before the Creation. Also I will remind the reader that creation is not from nothing, so even though Christ is created, he is also eternal and self-existent. But there was some generative process which organized the Son as God and the Son of God. Something can be both created and eternal because create means to organize and not to conjure out of nothingness.

Additionally, we learn that separating the Son from the Father does not divide or lessen God the Father any more than dividing a fire, or saying a word diminishes the ability of the person who said the word to think of more words. This is a very important argument for Justin to make because according to the Trinity Doctrine, only the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost together constitute the perfect expression of deity. If you separated the Father and the Son, God would cease to be all powerful and merciful, kind, and just. But according to LDS doctrine on the nature of God, God the Father is perfect, all-knowing and all-powerful alone without the other members of the Godhead. The Trinity Doctrine establishes the situation where the Son and Holy Ghost were sent to save, complete, and perfect the Father as much as they were sent to save, complete and perfect man. This is not true. The Son was sent bring man to the Father and by the Holy Ghost, the Father can dwell with us and in us. And, according to Justin, separating the Father and the Son does not diminish from the perfection of either any more than dividing flames would diminish the flame.

Justin Maryr comments to Trypho Chapter LXII.—The words “Let Us make man” agree with the testimony of Proverbs."

And the same sentiment was expressed, my friends, by the word of God [written] by Moses, when it indicated to us, with regard to Him whom it has pointed out, that God speaks in the creation of man with the very same design, in the following words: ‘Let Us make man after our image and likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heaven, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creeping things that creep on the earth. And God created man: after the image of God did He create him; male and female created He them. And God blessed them, and said, Increase and multiply, and fill the earth, and have power over it. And that you may not change the [force of the] words just quoted, and repeat what your teachers assert,—either that God said to Himself, ‘Let Us make,’ just as we, when about to do something, oftentimes say to ourselves, ‘Let us make;’ or that God spoke to the elements, to wit, the earth and other similar substances of which we believe man was formed, ‘Let Us make,’—I shall quote again the words narrated by Moses himself, from which we can indisputably learn that [God] conversed with some one who was numerically distinct from Himself, and also a rational Being. These are the words: ‘And God said, Behold, Adam has become as one of us, to know good and evil.’ In saying, therefore, ‘as one of us,’ [Moses] has declared that [there is a certain] number of persons associated with one another, and that they are at least two. For I would not say that the dogma of that heresy which is said to be among you is true, or that the teachers of it can prove that [God] spoke to angels, or that the human frame was the workmanship of angels. But this Offspring, which was truly brought forth from the Father, was with the Father before all the creatures, and the Father communed with Him; even as the Scripture by Solomon has made clear, that He whom Solomon calls Wisdom, was begotten as a Beginning before all His creatures and as Offspring by God,

So, here we see Justin's interpretation of Genesis were it clearly states that God said, "let us create man in our image." Many Evangelicals have conjured up the theory that the language in use there is some sort of "Royal We" case and its not actually referring to multiple intelligent beings. Interesting that Justin fails to have gotten the email on that but makes the same conclusions the LDS do on this. The clincher is that Justin points out the significance of God and the Son together commenting that after Adam had partaken of the fruit, he had now become like them, knowing good and evil. Justin shows how this comment is unmistakable Biblical proof that the Father and the Son are both God and both divine but separate persons, beings, substances, and intelligences. Jesus Christ is literally the Son of the Living God.

God Lives!

Many LDS Christians begin their testimony or witness of their faith by saying, "I know that God lives and Jesus is the Christ." So, what do we as LDS mean when we say "God Lives?" Additionally, the scriptures do not only teach that God is the "Only True and Existing God" but the "Only True and Living God." So, what do the scriptures mean by emphisize that God is living? Well, according to science, to be a living entity requires certain specific criteria, characteristics, and inherent abilities. There is some variability in definitions, but generally speaking the short list goes like this:

Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state. Also, the ability to resist entropy or the tendency for matter to seek a state of increasing disorder.
Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of synthesis than catabolism.
Response to stimuli: Interaction and response to its environment.
Reproduction: The ability to produce new organisms like itself.

So, according to the LDS understanding of the nature of God, God is alive. God exhibits spiritually analogous characteristics which satisfy the physical definitions as well.

Homeostasis: The scriptures teach that God exhibits the the characteristic of homeostasis because God is a God of order and is eternal and unchangeable in this sense.
Growth: The scriptures also teach that God exhibits the characteristic of growth because God is the creator and exhibits eternal progression. God is not a static being but dynamic and is unchangeable in the sense that He has never changed from His perfect course.
Response to stimuli: LDS scriptures also teach that God is able to respond to stimuli because God has a perfect and glorified body which is tangible.
Pro-creation: And the LDS know that God is all-powerful and has the ability to pro-create in that He can figuratively create spiritual offspring which can literally become like Him. In this sense the Bible refers to man as children of God and refers to God as Heavenly Father. Pro-creation as opposed to reproduction is achieved via the the mechanism of eternal parenting and does not refer to any physical mechanisms. Although the scriptures teach that God has the power and ability to both spiritually pro-create and literally physically reproduce as Jesus Christ is called the Only Begotten Son of the Father according to the flesh.

In conclusion, I would bare my witness that the God of the Universe Lives and exhibits all necessary spiritual characteristics of life, including homeostasis, growth, response to stimuli, and pro-creation.

Fatal Flaw of the Trinity Doctrine

A couple days ago I was listening to Evangelical Apologeticist Ravi Zacharias explain the incomprehensible mystery of the Trinity using an analogy from CS Lewis. Mr. Zacharias quoted CS Lewis who explained (loosely paraphrasing) that the "1 what and 3 who's" of the trinity were like dimensions of a single object. One dimension would be a line, two dimensions would form a shape, and three dimensions would be a complete and tangible object. Thus the trinity was the complete and perfect expression of deity.

Anyone see the problem here? This means that according to the Trinity; the Eternal Father isn't complete or perfect without Christ or the Holy Ghost. But that isn't what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that the Father is perfect by Himself.

Matt. 5: 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The Eternal Father does not need Christ or the Holy Ghost to be complete and perfect. It is man who needs Christ and the Holy Ghost to be complete and perfect. Man needs Christ for our prayers to reach the Father, and Man needs the Holy Ghost for man to receive God's answers because of our imperfection (Eph. 2: 18, Eph. 5: 20, Col. 3: 17). Again, the Eternal Father doesn't need Christ to be complete. Mankind needs Christ. Christ was sent by the Father to save man; Christ was not sent to save the Father.

John 3: 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1 Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

I should remind those who are unfamiliar with LDS Doctrine of God that it is very close to the doctrine of the Trinity in that we believe that the 3 persons of the God Head include the Eternal Father, the Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. We believe that each of these individuals are Gods and eternal in nature but that they are separate and distinct beings and personages and not just manifestations of the same being (modalism), or parts/aspects of the same God. These 3 separate and distinct individuals represent the 3 divine members of the God Head who are of perfectly unified but distinct wills or self-existences.

The God Head is a community of 3 Divine members; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. But they are 3 distinct beings, 3 distinct but unified wills, who are one in purpose. Christ demonstrates his distinct will from the Father in the Garden of Gethsemane. Will is the essential characteristic of self-existence. Therefore, Christ is a distinct but unified being with the Father.

Matt. 26: 39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

But God the Father is perfect, and complete and doesn't need the other 2 for His perfection, perfect love, mercy, justice or power. The Bible teaches that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are One, but it never says that separate they are imperfect and only together are they complete. Mankind needs all three because we need the mediation of Christ and the ministration of the Spirit to come unto and gain access to the Father who is perfect.

1 Tim. 2: 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Some of the confusion with regard to the trinity comes from a change in meaning of the word "one." Some christians have changed the meaning when the Bible teaches that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are "One" to mean "perfect" (1 Jn. 5: 7) LDS Doctrine has restored the original meaning of the word "one" in this context to be "unified in purpose." Remember, according to the Bible, the Father is perfect alone (Matt. 5: 48).

Definition of One: Evangelical = "perfect", LDS = "unified of purpose"
Definition of Perfect: "perfect" = "The Eternal Father"

LDS Doctrine Q & A

Is God body or spirit?
God has both a body and spirit and that is why we are commanded to worship God in spirit and in truth. God is spirit, but he is not a spirit only or not only a spirit. The only difference between purified, glorified, spirit matter and the purified, glorified physical matter that constitutes God's body is that it is tangible but being tangible does not confine God to time or space but gives Him power over time and space and other matter as He can literally interact with it.

Where was Christ born?
Christ was born in Bethlehem, a suburb of Jerusalem, but to a Nephite who didn't grow up in Jerusalem, answering Jerusalem was a more clear answer. If someone not from your home town asked where you were born, how would you answer?

Are genealogies scriptural?
LDS do not do genealogy to prove that we are more related to Abraham then someone else. We do genealogy to learn more about our faith heritage, more about ourselves, and so we can share the blessings of the restored gospel with those who came before us and whose legacy of faith created the psycho-social and spiritual environment where we could more easily receive Christ. (Mal. 4: 6) (1 Cor. 15: 29).

Is marriage eternal?
Angels are not married or given in marriage. That is because marriage is something that is only done on Earth during morality. So, the woman would have been married to the first man for time and all eternity by the keys of the kingdom given to Peter which is the authority that whatsoever is bound on Earth is also bound in heaven. This is the power that the Pharisees denied. The other 6 brothers had this woman as a second-wife under the law of Levarite marriage and the doctrine of the care for widows.

How long did darkness fall over the earth at Christ’s death?
3 days in the Americas could have been due to a pyroclastic flow from an erupting volcano. The air was so thick with ash that fire could not be started.

What does the Bible say about men, prophets or angels announcing another Gospel, as claimed by Joseph Smith?
The Book of Mormon teaches the same gospel of Jesus Christ as is contained in the Bible.

Did Melchizedek have a father?
The priesthood and spiritual authority of Melchizedek did not come from his father or mother but came from God while his temporal reign as king of Salem was passed down to him from His father. Melchizedek was a Christian and is a powerful type of Christ, but was not Christ Himself.

How old was Enoch when he was translated (taken up to heaven)?
The Bible gives different numbers for the same thing sometimes as well.

Should we believe those who say they have seen Christ in secret?
No you shouldn't. You should pray in secret and ask God yourself if this is true an let God tell you if it is true or not.

Is there more than one God?
In context of Isaiah, there is only One God who can save us. But the Bible says that God is a God of gods, and the Most High God (El Elyon). Describing men, God said, “I said, ye are gods, and sons of the Most High” All mankind are literal children of Our Father in Heaven and thus have the seeds of the divine within them; we are gods en embryo.

Is the use of King James’ English in the Book of Mormon logical?
Yes, because what makes JKV English sound distinct is its many Hebraisms. The Book of Mormon was written using Hebrew grammar together with reformed Egyptian Demotic-script instead of Paleo-Hebrew/Phoenecian. So, when the Book of Mormon was translated into English it retained many of the Hebraisms that give it the same distinctness as the KJV. Modern Bible translations focus on removing the Hebraic grammar in order to sound more modern.

Does the Book of Mormon plagiarize the Bible?
The same God who revealed the Bible, revealed the Book of Mormon. The Nephites had the Bible from Genesis to Jeremiah and referenced it continually like Christ referenced the Bible while on Earth.

Was God or Christ ever a man like we are?
God became a man in the same way Christ became a man but is still considered God from eternity to eternity.

When were followers of Christ first called "Christians"?
Adam, Enoch, Noah and Melchisedek were the first Christian's and received the everlasting covenant. Melchisedek presented broke bread and wine with Abraham symbolic of the Christian remembrance of Christ's blood and body sacrifice which would happen many centuries into the future.

When was the Book of Mormon's Book of Jacob written?
The use of "adieu" by Jacob represents that “adieu” was a part of the English language in 1830 and not a part of the Hebrew or Nephite language. English has many Latin and French words in it thanks to the Norman conquest of Great Britain.

Was Christ conceived by the Holy Spirit?
Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of the Eternal Father

Is the doctrine of the Virgin Birth consistent with actual sexual relations between God and Mary?
There is no official doctrine on this question except to say that Jesus is the Son of the Father and not the Holy Ghost. Orson Pratt and Bruce R. McConkie were of the opinion that the Christ was literally "begotten" of the Father requiring Mary to be married to God and then remarried to Joseph under the law of the widow (1 Tim 5). Again, this was only well-intentioned opinion.

How many will be condemned to Hell?
There will be few who go with Satan to Outer Darkness. There will be others who receive a degree of salvation and will have access to the Holy Ghost or Jesus Christ. Those who are exalted will live in the presence of the Eternal Father. All mankind the just and the unjust will be resurrected but there are different rewards in heaven based on our degree of the Love of Christ we received.

Do differences between Christian denominations require a new church?
The few offshoots of the LDS church are few and relatively small in number and like Protestant churches tended to break off due to a disagreement over one or another doctrine while sharing the vast majority of doctrines in common with one another.

Are additional scriptures required?
True Christians should accept every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God.

Do all believers have authority / hold the priesthood?
Yes, and that is why all LDS are literally ordained as priests in LDS temples as was Aaron. Men and women are washed, anointed, clothes in priesthood robes. When Christ comes again he will come as King of kings and Lord of lords to receive the 144000 which represents an innumerable quantity of persons, 12000 from every tribe representing that priests in the last days will not just be from Levi or Aaron but from every kindred, tongue and people.

Was the Gospel fully preached before Mormonism?
Yes, until it was rejected and corrupted by mixing it with Greek philosophy and doctrinal creeds were established by 5/4 committee votes and not by unifying revelation.

Are the Father and Son one?
Yes, in purpose.

Was polygamy tolerated by God after the Old Testament?
Yes, Moses said in Exodus 21 if a man taketh another wife that she should not deny the first her food, clothing and duty of marriage. In the Law of Moses, Levarite marriage was commanded in which an older brother would take his deceases younger brothers wife as a second-wife if he died and hadn't had any children yet. Abraham and Jacob had multiples wives and it was counted unto them for righteousness because it was done to raise up a righteous posterity or to take care of widows which Paul speaks of in 1 Tim 5. Those Elders who take widows as second wives who are told by Paul to remarry and have children deserve double honor. But Bishops should generally be the husband of only one wife so they have extra time to care for the business of the church.

Does Doctrine & Covenants contain fulfilled prophesies?
The Doctrine and Covenants predicts the start of the Civil War “At the rebellion of South Carolina” … the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain … and then war shall be poured out upon all nations … And … slaves shall rise up against their masters … and that the remnants … shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation." (Doctrine and Covenants 87:1-5).

Is Adam our God?
LDS refer to Our Heavenly Father as Elohim and the Son as Jesus Christ, and Adam who is known as Michael the Archangel. So, if Adam is Michael, he cannot be the same person as who we call Elohim.

Does Christ dwell in the hearts of believers?
Christ dwells in our hearts by the Holy Ghost

Are sincere, last-minute conversions honored by God?
Death-bed repentance will result in salvation from Outer Darkness (hell) but not exaltation.

Is Christ the brother of Lucifer?
Lucifer is a fallen-angel who is of the same stature as Michael the Archangel. But Christ is God. All men and angels are considered sons and daughters of the Eternal Father according to the following

Eph. 3: 14-15 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named.

Are personal efforts necessary for salvation?
We are saved by grace alone 100% But we are sanctified by works prepared by God such as baptism, prayer, priesthood, scripture, church organization, everlasting temple covenant, marriage, sacrament. None of these works can men do without God. Man cannot contribute even one iota to his salvation or sanctification. But man receives the Holy Ghost which empowers a man to receive all these things which results in a greater reception of Christ's grace, love, and grace. All the things listed are works which the Bible says will sanctify, purify or perfect. It is God who does these works through us who serve as instruments in God's hand and serve as witness to the power of Christ's atonement which not only has the power to cover and hide sin under the rug, but also has the power to purge us, and turn us completely away from sin in this world. This is why Paul says the Lord does not dwell in buildings made with mens hands. But we know the Lord and His presence dwelt in the Jerusalem Temple. So that must mean that God built that temple using men as instruments in his hands.

Should I allow Mormon missionaries into my home?
Yes!

John 13: 20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Modern Physics and God

[The following is not LDS Doctrine, it is just for fun. The scriptures are not physics text books]

It is the official opinions of several Christian organizations that the Church of Jesus Christ is not Christian. Their reason seemed to focus on our rejection of the Nicene creed, particularly the "oneness of substance of the Father and Christ" as well as believing God is "confined" to a body so that He cannot be considered Omnipresent. And if God is not omnipresent, then He cannot be considered omnipotent

1. Oneness of Purpose
LDS belief in the Trinity is: One God in Three Persons or three Gods of One Purpose. That is, we believe in the God the Father, the Son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost. We acknowledge the divinity of Jesus Christ as fully God. The Son is not the Father, and is a manifestation of the Father in the sense of prefect representation. But this is not modalism. We do not believe that the Godhead should be compared to H2O that can be steam, water, or ice. Jesus is the Son of The Father and not the Father Himself. A better comparison is to say that God is like 3 cells in the same organism (God Head).

Jesus Christ reveals that He had a separate will from the Father. But Christ completely subordinated His will to that of the Father and became one in purpose with the Father. The will is our essence, it is eternal and is separate together with the substance. However, the will can be unified in purpose. In other words. the Father and the Son are 2 distinct and separate personages who are one in purpose. But in another sense, the Father and Son can be considered to share the same substance in that they share the same physical and chemical characteristics, but separate in that they don't share the same atoms.

Matt. 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

2. The Father has a Glorified Body
God does have a glorified body. But a glorified body is not all that different than a glorified spirit.

Spirit: purified matter, not tangible, anthropomorphic, glorified
Mortal Body: flesh and blood, tangible, anthropomorphic, not glorified
Resurrected Body: flesh and bone, purified matter, tangible, anthropomorphic, glorified.

We do not consider having a body to be confining. Rather, it is empowering. Since we are not confined to the classical laws of Newtonian physics and understand that God is not confined to time or space, then we understand that God has infinite time and can be everywhere and anywhere and still have a body. The clock does not move for God. He dwells in the Eternal Now. Everything is before Him both past present and future. Therefore, he can visit place A at 1:30, and then visit place X and our clock still reads 1:30. The clock never changes. So, in this way God can be tangible, and have parts, and be made of matter and have a form and still be omnipresent.

There is another way that God can "have His cake and eat it too". As God has a body and a spirit we are told to worship Him in spirit and in truth (notice the parallel structure).

3. The Eternal Now
I have been arguing that God who dwells in the "Eternal Now" can have form, substance, material, and tangibleness such that having a form would localize himself to an exact position. But because God has infinite time (his clock doesn't run) He can physically be in more than one place at the same time according to man's concept of time (reference frame).

Col. 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Rev. 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
Rev. 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

But there are other ways that having a form, substance and being made of material does not prevent God's influence from filling the immensities of space.

4. Particle-Wave Duality
Light and electrons behave as individual particles who can be localized to an exact position, but their influence fills a much larger area. Due to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle you couldn't measure the position of an electron and its momentum around an atom, with exact precision; that is until entanglement came around. Now you just entangle particles and measure position in one particle and measure momentum in the other (this kinks are still being worked out). Like electrons and light, God can also be thought of as having particle-wave duality. He has a form, and substance, and is composed of matter, but His influence can still be everywhere.

5. Entanglement
Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle and the Quantum Limit said that it was impossible to make exact measurements of electrons around the nucleus of an atom because anything used to make those measurements would change the electrons from their original state. Concequently, man only can obtain an estimation, probability, or perception of the actual values, but not truth itself. With the discovery of entanglement, characteristic of individual particles can be measured with greater precision than the quantum limit allows by measuring for one characteristic in one entangled particle and measuring another characteristic in the other entangled particle. So far, precision measurements using entanglement have exceeded the Quantum Limit but not the Heisenberg Limit.

With our new understanding of entanglement, I think an analogy can be drawn which illustrates the relationship of God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. That is, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost can be thought of as entangled beings. And through Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost, can man arrive at a precise knowledge of the Father.

6. The Force of Nature
One of the pressures against the concept of God having a body, form, substance, etc. was the need for God to be omnipresent such that God's presence filled the immensities of space. It was concluded that if God were to be understood to have a body, and to be composed of matter, that He could therefore be localizable and not omnipresent. So, the concept of God was changed from being anthropomorphic in nature to being a "force of nature" like gravity. A few who subscribe to the idea of "intelligent falling" (spoof on Intelligent Design) claim God is gravity. So, by applying classical physics to God, man stripped God of His reality, form, substance, and tangibleness.

However, modern physics shows us that God can have form and substance, and be composed of matter and still fill the immensities of space and be considered literally omnipresent. Quantum Mechanics and Particle Physics has realized in the "Standard Model" that all forces are mediated by particles. That means that not only is the particle exhibiting a force matter, but the force field itself is also matter. Its all matter just as Joseph Smith said it was.

D&C 131:8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.

In the same way, God can have a form, and substance and exhibit a force that fills the immensities of space and that force would still be considered matter, as all forces are. So, in a literal way, the substance of God, which emanates from God, is God and is matter. Maybe graviton or Higgs boson (mass carrier) could be renamed the "God particle." I doubt that God could be measured with any man-made instruments but the effects of His influence are everywhere.

Strong nuclear force: Force Particle: quarks, Field Particle: gluons
Electromagnetic force: Force Particle: quarks, Field Particle: photons
Weak nuclear force: Force Particle: lepton, Field Particle: W/Z boson
Gravitational force: Force Particle: Higgs. Field Particle: graviton

7. Near-Death Experiences
I don't understand why some would claim God being a Spirit would mean that He is without form or material substance. Angels, spirits, and devils have form and occupy space even though they are not flesh and bone. Those who have experienced near-death experiences prove this. When they leave their body, they are still anthropomorphic, and have a form in the image of their mortal body. But they are no longer tangible and they can no longer interact with earthly matter directly, (by spiritual communication and influence only). This goes for Satan too who is spirit and appears in the form of a man and angels who are also anthropomorphic. If God is a spirit, why would he be different from all other spiritual beings who are anthropomorphic or at least have form and parts.

8. 3 Generations of Matter
According to the Standard Model of particle physics there are 3 classes of matter. Generation 1 comprises all regular matter consisting of protons, neutrons, and electrons. Generation 1 matter is comprised of a combination of Up/Down quarks and the electron and electron neutrino Leptons. Generation 2 matter is not stable in our known universe and consists of Charm/Strange quarks and the Leptons: Muon and muon neutrino. Generation 3 matter is also not stable and consists of Top/Bottom quarks and Leptons: Tau and Tau neutrino. Particles from the electron, Muon, and Tau families are similar but increase in mass with each generation.

I thought there may be a parallel between the 3 generations of matter in the Standard theory and the LDS doctrine of 3 types of glory/matter as taught in the Bible.

1 Cor. 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Maybe it could be said that Terrestial Matter is composed of Generation 2 Matter and Celestial Matter is composed of Generation 3 Matter. The difference would be that Each step would be more massive or in other words, exhibit more of God's nature (Higgs particles).

It leads me to wonder what quality and glory of substance the bodies of Moses, Elijiah, and John the Revelator and other translated being are (City of Enoch). They have been changed from a Telestial state (mortal) to an Terrestial state. Did God change them from Generation 1 to Generation 2 matter. Probably not because Gen 2 matter is not stable. But whatever the mechanism its all matter. Power, light, glory is all matter. If it is not matter, then it isn't real and doesn't exist. Even Paul says faith is substance.

Heb. 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

9. Neutrinos
LDS doctrine on God, and the difference between spirit and flesh emphasizes tangibleness and not form. According to scripture, spirits bodies of man appear like bodies of flesh except they are said not not be tangible. The characteristics of neutrinos seems to illustrate the concept of tangibleness. Electron Neutrinos are theorized to be a major product of the fusion of Hydrogen into Helium that takes place in the sun. The sun is emitting innumerable numbers of these particles every second. However, because these particles do not have charge, they do not interact with matter and are difficult to detect. Zillions of these particles pass straight through the Earth. Scientist say the sun shines neutrinos down during the day, and up at night. They fact that they are detected at all is because by quantum mechanical oscillations which means the neutrinos briefly turn into something else which can be measured.

New experiments are showing that neutrinos may actually have a small mass. But because there are so many neutrinos in the universe, this could explain the missing mass of the universe. In one sense, neutrinos could be the spiritual glue which holds the universe together. Although neutrinos may be measured to have a mass, they would still be considered to be intangible because they lack a charge. Other particles like photons are completely massless and have no charge but do interact easily with matter. So, its hard to say at this point what it is that makes neutrinos so intangible.

10. Conclusion
My point of this post is not to confining God to formulas and theories. But that is exactly what evangelicals have done. They have confined God to the limits of Newtonian physics in saying that God cannot have form or be composed of matter because that would confine God to time and space. However our new and expanding understanding of the laws of physics makes possible all sorts of previously presumed impossibilities. Modern physics allows God to have form, be material, be real, have a body composed of incorruptible matter, to not be confined by time or space and at the same time fill the immensities of space with His glory and therefore His substance (everything is matter). As we learn more about physics, I expect the evidence to further support the truth about God.

However, there is another critical error in evangelical thinking. That is that if God was composed of matter, he would be confined by the laws of nature. Let me say first, that it is not LDS doctrine that the laws of nature, right or wrong, good or evil, or truth and falsehood are above God and that God is "confined" by them. Justice is not a monster that God has to satisfy its demands. God's justice is God keeping His word exactly as He has said. God's mercy is God keeping His word exactly as He has said. Truth is God's word exactly as He has said. Righteousness is doing God's will exactly as He has said. And wickedness is doing anything other than God's will exactly as He has said.

The Laws of Nature do not confine God, God is equal to them, they are co-eternal with God, they are not limitations, but God exercises complete mastery and control over them. The evangelical view point is in error because if you apply it to yourself then you would be forced to conclude that commandments are limitations and restrictions. However, scripture teaches that commandments are not limitations but directions. Physical and spiritual laws to not restrict but they empower. And Christ Himself promised us that "the truth will make us free" (John 8: 32). And although, concerning man, "the letter killeth , but the spirit giveth life;" this doesn't mean God operates and exists independent of natural laws (2 Cor. 3: 6).

Q & A on God

If there are other Gods then the one we are supposedly obligated to worship, why don't we worship them? Are they not worthy of worship?

Other gods would not be worthy of praise and worship (obedience) because they are not our Heavenly FAther. Obeying anyone other than our God will not bring about our exaltation. They have nothing to do with our salvation and eternal life. This is the context of God saying that there is no other Gods like him, before him, or after him. Only Our God can save us because he is our Eternal Father and we are his spirit offspring. "I said, ye are gods and children of the Most High". (children is not contingent on our current acceptance but our past acceptance)

Even though Christ is the mediator of the Atonement between God the Father and man, we do not pray to Jesus Christ or to the Holy Ghost. We only pray to the Father in the name of Christ (forever). Christ is the medium by which we reach the Father. The Holy Ghost is the medium by which the Father responds.So, yes we believe as Paul did 1 Cor 8:5-6 "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Who was the First God? or When was the First Exaltation? What God was present at the First Exaltation?

All things are before God, past, present and future (col 1:17). Gods have no beginning and no end. So, it makes no sense to apply time to God in this way. Yes, it has been taught in the past that "As man now is, God once was" and that suggests that God had an Eternal Father and so on. But since the Spirit of Our God always existed and had no beginning, The Father of God the Father did not come before because both have been and are co-existent and co-eternal beings. So, the word of Isaiah is not violated.

Are the other Gods good or evil?

Lucifer was a member of the grand heavenly council and was and is considered a god in the same sense man is. Revelations tells us that he was able to draw a third part of the stars of heaven (spirits of God the Father) So we see that we had the ability to choose in the pre-mortal existence. Thus Jude comments, "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day" (Jude 1:6)

Do they all have the same wills as our God?

God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are one in purpose but do not have the same wills. Will is a huge, fascinating concept. The Book of Mormon talks about two kinds of creations; things which act and things which are acted upon (2 Ne. 2:13-14,26). But it is our will that is an essential aspect of our being and an essential aspect of what it means to be considered a god.

The Bible goes into great detail concerning our will. It is what God the Father desires and values above all other things. The Bible suggests that our will is something that God did not own prior. In that sense, the Bible says that our will has been purchased or "bought with a price" (1 Cor. 6:20), and redeemed. Our will is what God wants of us. Christ tells us that the only acceptable sacrifice is of a "broken heart and a contrite spirit" or in other words "a willing heart and a willing mind." Christ expressed his independent will from the Father when he said in the Garden "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thouwilt."

The doctrine of will has important implications. One implicatation is that God is not to be blamed for the choices of Satan or others. God created/organized all things. But had God conjured Satan from nothing (ex nihlo) and not from pre-existing intelligence with the essential characteristic of will, then God is responsible for either: creating a defective product, rolling the dice with the universe (I granted him his agency and let things happen [conclusion of Rabbi Kushner]), or dealing unjustly to Lucifer (Satan is serving God's higher purposes). But, because the spirit of Satan with its inherent will was co-existent with God, God allows the expression of Satan's will to serve God's higher purposes but is not responsible for Satan's choices and behavior.

Are they of the same essence as our God?

Well, since the will of God is an essential characteristic of His Godhood, then I would have to say no because the Bible teaches that although Christ is one in purpose with the Father, He is of separate will.

Are the three gods of the LDS Trinity one in essence?

Same as above. But, let me say that all mankind who have kept their "first estate" accepted God the Father, Jesus Christ, and The Holy Ghost as Gods, and members of the GodHead. But only God the Father is accepted as our Eternal Father to who we were created/organized sons. But interestingly, we are also born again when we accept Christ as our savior and Christ becomes our Eternal Father in the sense that he becomes the author and means of our Eternal Life. We then becomes His sons and His daughters. But before coming to Earth we had already accepted Christ once (first estate [choice]), and we overcame Lucifer by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony (faith in Christ). Now we must choose again (second estate). God asks us, "what think ye of Christ?"

By what standard do the Gods call themselves "good" or "evil"?

"God is love" That is that God's whole purpose (work and glory) is to bring about the eternal life and exaltation of his children. God is God based on his Eternal Fatherhood. Paul said in heaven and earth there are many gods but there is only One Father to us. God the Father desires to give his children everything he has, to make us heirs of God, and to have us sit in his throne."

God is faithful" Also, what makes God good is that he keeps His word.

If we were procreated by two Gods in the spirit realm, then why were we not immediately Gods as they are?

For starter, spirit procreation does not involve pregnancy. God the Father is embodied and our spirits have always existed and were co-existent with His. We were created/organized sons of God in the grand heavenly council but we have always been considered gods with the essential characteristic of will.

Since covenants are retroactive and are from eternity to eternity, it can be said that by accepting God as our Eternal Father that he can always be considered our Eternal Father from eternity to eternity. Christ's sacrifice was similarly retroactive. Christ's atonement was infinite and eternal. Eternal Covenants don't operate exactly like laws and contracts (which has implications on why it's a sin to have sex before marriage among other reasons).

How do you interpret 1 Cor. 8:5-6 which says there is only one God?

1 Cor. 8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods (idols) , whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ,There are many gods in the heavens and the earth according to the Bible but there is only One God the FAther, and One Lord Jesus CHrist.

The Bible teaches that God is a God of gods, Lord of lords, King of kings, Judge of judges, Holy of holies; The Most High God. The scripture is talking about idol worship but the parenthetical acknowledges that in the heavens there in reality many god-like beings. Doesn't it praise God and give him more glory that he is the God of gods, or just a god of degenerates. What good are Christians over Darwinist if you believe that man is scum. What good are Christians over Abortionists if you believe "gods in embryo" make them less then gods. Satan has tried to hide who we really are and the true worth of souls in the eyes of God. This belief does not demean God but elevates man and brings Glory to the Father who is the Father of excellent sons and daughters in Christ.

What attributes set God and man apart and how are they alike?

1Cor 13:1-8 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

I think that Paul is telling us that knowing everything, or having all power, or having all time isn't so special in heaven where there is no time, and no sickness, and no learning disabilities, and we have access to all truth. Being omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient may be overrated in a sense. However, as spirits in the pre-existence we did not foreknow the outcome of the test of mortality and had to exercise faith in Christ.

Although this scripture is used by some to say that miracles and signs would no longer continue in Christ's church, I think Paul is saying is that "God is love" and characteristics like charity and traits that make a good friend and a good parent are what make us a good disciple. Love is what sets God apart from man. The Love of God is manifest in His sacrifice of his Only Begotten Son and His Eternal Parenthood and His desire to share all that He has with his children. So, that His children become like Him and can share in the fullness of joy He experiences.

So, man is alike God in the sense that he is created in the image of God, and man knows good from evil. The spirits of man and God are alike in that they are timeless in that they had no beginning. Man is unlike God in that we lacked a glorified body, and we lacked procreative power, spiritually speaking (pregnancy not required) in addition to being omniscence, omnipotence, omnipresence, and dynamically immutable.