Truth is Independent

I found that while many Evangelicals do not agree with the the LDS view of the Plan of Salvation when it comes to the 3 degrees of glory as explained in 1 Cor. 15: 40, or 2 Cor. 12: 2 or 3 habitations explained by Irenaeus quoting Papias in "Against Heresies;" many do believe that those who are saved in heaven will receive different rewards.

1 Cor 3: 8-15 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Here Paul plainly distinguishes between salvation which both men received and reward. LDS believe that while all men will be resurrected both the just and the unjust, all those except the sons of perdition who sin against the Holy Ghost will be saved from hell. Some will have to go through the fire, but as Isaiah says the prisoners will eventually be freed. What will be different is the reward. So, heaven is not an all or nothing proposition. We will reap according to that which we sow in Christ.

Matt. 12: 31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

That said, when I asked why they had trouble accepting different habitations or spheres, but they could accept the idea of different rewards, one pointed to D&C 93: 30.

D&C 93: 30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.

This person couldn't accept that there could be different heavens or spheres of existence because he thought that kind of thing led to moral relativism. It seemed to him that this verse to Joseph Smith in the Doctrine and Covenants was teaching that universal truth didn't really exist and that truth really came down to your individual circumstances.

Thankfully, that is exactly the opposite of what this is saying. But I do not fault this person for misunderstanding it as some others have also come to the same unfortunate conclusion. When D&C 93 says that "all truth is independent" It means exactly what it says. Truth isn't dependent on the circumstance, it is independent of circumstance. This is actually an argument for universal truth, not against it. In fact, this verse is teaching a principle that is taught in physics which also supports the idea of universal truth. That physics principle is Einstein's theory of relativity.

What does Einstein's theory say? It says that the speed of light is constant regardless of reference frame. The properties of objects as observed by different observers depends on their reference frame. To someone traveling in a car on the highway the same speed as an adjacent car, the other car may seem like it is not moving. But to an observer sitting in a parked car on the side of the road, both cars are traveling at highway speeds. This part is classical physics.

But if the stationary observer and the observers in the cars all turn on their car headlights, If you were to measure the speed of light coming from the stationary car and the moving cars; they would be exactly the same. The light coming from the moving car wouldn't be traveling any faster just because its emanating from a car that is already moving. Light from both moving and stationary cars would strike a distance target at the very same instant. Classical physics would predict the light emanating from the moving vehicle would be going slightly faster; the speed of light + 65 mph. Einstein proved that light from both cars travels at 3.998X10^8 m/s in a vacuum. So, it turns out that classical physics is more relative than relativity.

In other words, there may be different frames of reference and objects traveling in different directions and at different speeds, but the speed of light is universal regardless. The same applies to truth. D&C 93 is not saying that truth is different in each sphere. Truth and the laws are exactly the same and independent in each sphere or habitation or reference frame, but that there may be different consequences or effects because of that fact.

An article from the Sept 1980 Ensign addresses this issue. This article addressed why many scientific theories seem to exclude God from having a hand in creation. The opinion of the author F. Kent Nielsen (assistant professor in the history of science at Brigham Young University, teaches Sunday School in his Provo, Utah, ward) is that law and truth may behave differently in different spheres. While truth and law does not change. Those laws may behave certain ways in a pre-fall world vs, a fallen world, vs a Millennial world, vs a Celestialized world. This is not saying the truth is variable or relative itself. This is the same with Einsteins theory of relativity. The speed of light constant is constant under any reference frame or sphere. It is the object in the reference frame that acts relative not the constant. What are some of these effects or consequences. According to Wiki, it says:

The speed of light in a vacuum is the same for all observers, regardless of their relative motion or of the motion of the source of the light. The resultant theory has many surprising consequences. Some of these are:


Time dilation: Moving clocks are measured to tick more slowly than an observer's "stationary" clock.
Length contraction: Objects are measured to be shortened in the direction that they are moving with respect to the observer.
Relativity of simultaneity: two events that appear simultaneous to an observer A will not be simultaneous to an observer B if B is moving with respect to A.
Mass-energy equivalence: E = mc2, energy and mass are equivalent and transmutable.

Kent Nielsen's point is that the effects of truth and law may be different in a different sphere. But the scientific laws that we see are the effects or consequences in our sphere. Therefore, looking at how our Earth is put together may not tell us much about God because God dwells in a higher Sphere, and the laws of light and nature may have different effects. And also, because this Earth before the Fall may not have always existed in this same sphere of existence. Again, this is not saying that there is no such thing as truth.What Bro. Nielsen was saying is that we shouldn't get discouraged if science doesn't measure God or God doesn't necessarily show up in the equations as we derive them here in this Telestial state.

Many social and moral relativists have made the same error in citing Einstein's theory to support their immoral political and social agendas. But their interpretation of this theory is completely contrary to its actual meaning.

Where does your doctrine lead?

In my conversations with Evangelical Christians I have come across 3 disturbing beliefs that are a result of the mixing of apostate thinking with pure doctrine. Remember that correct belief "Orthodoxy" will lead you to correct behavior "Orthopraxis," which will lead you to a correct heart towards God "Orthocardia." A questions we should all ask ourselves is if our belief is leading us closer to or away from God. Additionally, correct belief should also lead us closer to our families and neighbors. Remember the two great commandments to love God and our fellow man? If loving God and our family and neighbors is so important, then the correct doctrines of Christ should increase our love and tolerance towards all mankind in addition to increasing our ability to love God.

#1. Family doesn't matter to God.

In a discussion about the eternal nature and significance of family to God, several of my evangelical friends were attempting to convince me that our immediate temporal family here on Earth was unimportant, temporary, and had no lasting value in the eyes of God.

To the LDS, family is the basic unit of social organization on Earth and in Heaven. Adam and Eve were organized into the first family before The Fall, and existed in that state of innocence and purity in the presence of God with a command to have children. LDS believe that family relationships can endure beyond death and be enjoyed for eternity.

#2. If you are not Christian, you are not my brother.

In a conversation about the pre-existence and eternal nature of the spirit within us, some Evangelical friends of mine were of the opinion that only professing Christians where their brothers and would be saved. This excluded me, because although I profess belief in Jesus Christ as my Savior and Redeemer, they tell me that I don't believe in their version of Jesus which they claim is the correct Jesus.

LDS believe that all mankind are spirit children of our Heavenly Father regardless of color, ethnicity, faith or creed. In fact, if you are Muslim or Hindu or Agnostic and are true and valiant to the truth which God has put in your heart and mind, then you will be both saved and exalted. That is because Christ is truth, and if you believe in truth, you really believe in Christ without knowing you do. God will make allowance for tradition which prevents some from getting the words right when the heart, head, and hands are clean in Christ. The Bible says "where there is no law, there is no sin." Eventually, those who are true and faithful will accept Christ in word to go along with their deeds. And also, the necessary temple work will be done on their behalf to satisfy the technical demands of salvation and exaltation. But, those who are faithful and true to the truth they are given by God will not be denied any blessing.

#3 God does not answer prayer about personal matters.

In a conversation with an Evangelical about personal testimony and revelation, my friend stated:

[there is NOT one passage in Old or New Testament scripture instructing us to inquire of the Lord on what we ought OR ought not to do regarding personal matters!]

[The Bible does NOT model for us a mode of decision-making where we examine our hearts for communication from God telling us what to do.]

And then he sited the Evangelical author Greg Koukl's, “Decision Making and the Will of God:”

[The Bible does NOT teach us to expect subjective internal promptings from the Holy Spirit as any kind of normative guide.]

Other Evangelicals claim that God will inspire with regard to "wisdom" or how to apply the Bible, but not about "knowledge." The only source of spiritual knowledge is the Bible alone. Therefore, they say that you cannot pray about whether something is true or not, but only if you should or shouldn't do something. The Bible teaches that "the Holy Ghost will guide us into all truth;" not just all wisdom. Truth encompasses both knowledge and wisdom. And that is the point of this post is that correct belief leads to correct action, and the Holy Ghost is required together with scripture for both.

LDS, know that Christ says again and again "Ask and ye will receive, knock and it shall be opened unto you." LDS know that God does care about the even the smallest details of our lives. In some instances the answer may be "it mattereth not." But that still is a wonderful answer. If you have been led to believe by your doctrine that God does not care about the intimate details of your life, to not bother praying, or to not expect answers to prayer, maybe your doctrine isn't helping you develop as close of a relationship with God as you think.

Foundation Doctrine and Testimony

There has been considerable debate on the Internet among LDS and our friends of other Christian faiths about what constitutes official LDS Doctrine and what does not. The First Presidency of the LDS Church has released an official statement that reads that not everything a church leader has said on any occasion is necessarily official church doctrine. Instead, some teachings fall under the category of "well-meaning opinion." The criteria for doctrine by the LDS church according to this official statement is that the teaching should be clearly found in LDS scripture, in current LDS Sunday School Manuals, in official First Presidency statements, and/or repeated multiple times by past and present General Authorities of the LDS Church at General Conference and in current church publications such as the Ensign.

Some Christians of other faiths seem to have a difficult time with this statement because the LDS claim its General Authorities are Prophets, Seers, and Revelators like the Apostles and Prophets in the Bible. They tend to expect that these men should be infallible. But the LDS church does not teach a doctrine of infallibility of its leaders. The LDS church teaches that on the whole the Prophet and the majority of the Apostles would never lead the church astray. In other words, not everything said (as we understand it) is necessarily true just because of who these men are. But, if truth is to be revealed by God to man, we know where to look because the Prophets and Apostles of the LDS church hold the keys and authority to receive revelation for the whole church.

That brings up another important issue about the difference between core doctrine and opinion. And that has to do with individual testimony and a personal witness of truth by the Holy Ghost. See, the LDS church does not expect its members to blindly follow our leadership. Every member is expected to pray and ask God if the foundation doctrines of the LDS faith are true and are promised that if we ask with faith that God will reveal the truth of these foundation doctrines to the asker by the Power of the Holy Spirit. In fact, investigators of the LDS church are specifically asked before they are baptized if they have received such a witness and testimony as a prerequisite for baptism. This is done so that the individual member will have an independent witness that the doctrine is true directly from God Himself with no intermediary but Christ. By these means, the individual member develops a personal relationship with Jesus Christ who is our only mediator with the Father. Church leadership assist members with our relationship with Christ and help point us too Christ, but Christ is the only mediator between man and the Father.

So, how does this apply to the conversation with those of other faiths? Some have gone to great effort to scour LDS archives or archival publications such as "Journal of Discourses" and expect LDS to defend any quote they dig up. In some cases, some quotes in older books like "Journal of Discourses" and Orson Pratt's "the Seer" have taken a life of their own. Because some of these quotes are over 100 years old, and have not been commented on by more modern church leaders, it is difficult in many cases to even understand the true meaning and intent of the quote. In fact, many former-LDS I have talked to who question some of these teachings confess that they did not hear these teachings by the missionaries, from LDS scripture, from official LDS Sunday School Manuals, during weekly LDS church services, from current General Authorities of the LDS church in General Conference or in the Ensign (Official monthly LDS publication) or the LDS temple. They routinely say they read it or discovered it on their own.

But there is a more important issue here. And that issue is one of testimony. It is difficult for some to realize that to the LDS, there is a hierarchy of what we know to be true. Others think that everything the LDS church leaders say should exist on the same level. However, LDS believe what we believe because we feel that God Himself has revealed and confirmed to us that certain things are true by the Holy Spirit. What are those things? They are the foundation doctrines of the church such as that God Lives, Jesus is the Christ, the Bible and the Book of Mormon are God's word, that Joseph Smith saw God the Father and Jesus Christ, and that the authority of Christ's church was lost from the Earth and priesthood authority was again restored to Joseph Smith and God continues to call Prophets and Apostles today and continues to reveal His will and word through modern prophets.

Now, it is much easier for LDS to discuss any of these issues because we feel we have a testimony and spiritual witness of them. However, when it comes to other esoteric topics that routinely come up in discussion, it is more difficult because although we might have heard the quotes before, we don't necessarily have a divinely acquired witness and testimony that they are true or that we understand what the original intent of the quote. So, we say that such-and-such a quote in not doctrinal and should be considered a well-intended, well-meaning opinion. What adds to the debate is that often, LDS and non-LDS interpret these quotes differently and both sides lack modern, official commentary on these older quotes by Brigham Young or Orson Pratt, for example.

After assigning a particular quote to the level of "well-meaning opinion," The non-LDS often asks how can we consider so-and-so a prophet or apostle and not accept everything they say as absolute, universal, inviolate, inerrant, infallible truth? The reason is that our testimony and belief in Christ does not come from a faith in these leaders alone. Our testimony in Christ and His gospel comes from a spiritual witness from God through the Holy Spirit through prayer to Our Eternal Father in the name of Jesus Christ. Consequently, there are many topics which individual members have not received a spiritual witness on. We may have a spiritual witness from God that Brigham Young was a prophet so, anything Brigham Young says we will keep in consideration. But until more modern Prophets and Apostles comment on the particular quote in question or I receive a personal witness on a certain topic or about certain specific quote, I really cannot defend them.

I consider such quotes to be well-meaning opinion. In other words, because I believe Brigham Young was a true prophet, I will not outright reject what he said, but without personal revelation, I can neither support or reject the quote. I do try to point out if I think someone, who asks about a quote or teaching, is misinterpreting the quote and I will often give my opinion to help that person understand the context of the teaching. But in many cases, the teaching could be true as we understand it, or it could be inaccurate as we understand it, or maybe we misunderstand what is being said entirely. But the quotes themselves are not going to affect my belief in the LDS faith, because my belief is based on my trust in God alone and my testimony of truth in the core doctrines of the LDS faith which I have received through study, pondering, fasting, prayer, and revelation by God through His Holy Spirit.

There are those which read this and say that while these topics are not core doctrine today, they were the core doctrine then, and the early church members sacrificed to defend them and how could I turn my back on those teachings that the early church members believed in so much they gave their lives for them. Truth is that the core, fundamental doctrines of the church haven't changed.

My wife's has 3/4-th pioneer ancestry, and 1/4-th converted Missouri Mobbocrat ancestry. This ancestry includes surviving members of the Martin and Willie Handcart Company. According to their recorded journals and testimony (which I have and have read), they were converted by the same foundation doctrines that I was. They bore testimony of the same foundation teaching that I do. They were converted based on a spiritual witness that God lives, Jesus is the Christ, the Book of Mormon is God's word, and Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus Christ and was called as a modern-day prophet. I didn't read any testimony by them based on the pet-topics I often hear on the Internet such as blood atonement, or Adam-God. I don't know of anyone who joined the church because of polygamy either. If LDS testimony is conditioned and automatic, then I would expect early LDS members to be testifying of Adam-God right along with everything else if it was such a core doctrine. Fact is, they don't. A good sign that the theory is completely contrived or a grave misunderstanding is that these odd teachings are not taught by other church leadership contemporary with Brigham Young and they are not found in early LDS testimonies.

Again, my evidence against theories like Adam-God and Blood Atonement being core doctrines is that no contemporaries of Brigham Young taught it and no early LDS member mentioned it in their testimony. If LDS testimony is as conditioned and automatic as some claim, then I would expect testimonies back then like "I would like to bare my testimony.... i know the church is true .... I know that Joseph Smith is a prophet ..... I know that the Adam is God .... I know that murderers must confess their sin and have their blood shed on the ground to be saved .... etc."

With regard to polygamy. These ancestors accepted the practice of polygamy only because they had a witness of the other truths of the gospel. The practice was a trial of their faith. And only because of this testimony, did the early Saints accepted that God required polygamy. In the same way, because of my testimony, I accept that God no longer requires that practice.

Formula for Truth: Ponder, Study, Prayer

Many Evanglicals criticize LDS for what they say is "interpreting scripture through the lens of LDS doctrine." Robert L. Millet (Professor of Ancient Scripture BYU) and Gerald R. McDermott (Professor of Religion Roanoke College) both agree that every Christian interprets scripture through the eye of their faith-tradition. The key then is to judge the lens. Is the LDS lens clear or cloudy. Is the LDS faith-tradition inspired or "another gospel."

That said, some Evangelicals insist that their interpretation of scripture is 100% objective and unbiased by tradition or preconceved ideas. These same Evangelicals declare the mantra "Scripture interprets Scripture" to describe their paradigm for proper Bible interpretation. Others go beyond this paradigm and declare that their understanding "begins and ends with the Bible" and is "purely and completely logical." Many Evangelicals criticize LDS for responding to what we call the "feelings of the Holy Ghost." They say we let "emotion cloud our judgement." In this post I will compare and contrast the Evangelical paradigm that "starts and stops with the Bible" with the LDS paradigm for receiving truth.

I don't have a problem with the saying that "scripture interprets scripture." Many passages of scripture are clearly understood in the light of the full Biblical context. However, I beleive that saying "truth starts and stops with the Bible" is not correct. Those Evangelicals who claim that their understanding of truth "begins and ends with the Bible" deny that they approach the Bible with pretext. If that is the case, their truth paradigm could be represented with the following formula.

BIBLE -> MAN's LOGIC -> BIBLE [or] MAN's LOGIC -> BIBLE -> MAN's LOGIC

Now I don't have any problem with steps 1 and 3 other than it's circular nature. But Step 2 leaves God out of of the equation. Because of step 2, a person who lives by this paradigm, can be left with ideas of man mixed with the Bible or as LDS like to say "philosophes of men mingled with scripture." Or if you are intellectually honest and admit pretext, "Garbage in, garbage out."

2 Pet. 2: 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

On the other hand, LDS doctrine involves God in each step. The first step for LDS is righteous desire. A pure seeker of truth will be empowered by the Holy Ghost with a desire to know and question. Without the operation of the Holy Ghost, a man can desire no good thing. This step is also referred to in scripture as "pondering."

After "pondering" and being inspired and empowered by the Holy Ghost to ask certain questions, LDS are instructed to go to the Scriptures for an answer. God tells us in the Doctrine and Covenants that we are to then "study it out in our minds" as well as "feast upon the words of Christ." The scriptures also refer to Step 2 as "searching." Searching the scriptures must also involve the Holy Ghost. Scriptures are to be the understood by the spirit of prophecy which is a testimony of Jesus Christ. Without this, scripture is just words and can be manipulated.

After searching the scriptures for answers, the pure seeker of truth will discover that the Bible does not claim to be the gold standard for truth. Yes, the Bible will furnish us with all good works, but the scriptures point us to the final authority of truth. God is the final authority, to whom we must turn for verification of our answers by prayer. The Bible promises "Ask and recieve, knock and it shall be opened unto you." Also, "If any of you lack wisdom let him ask of God." Therefore, Prayer is the final step to verify what we have learned from scripture. God has promised us that "by the power of the Holy Ghost, [we can] know the truth of all things." The Bible promises that the Holy Ghost will guide us into all truth.

Therefore, the LDS truth paradigm could be represented by the following formula.

Desire/Question/Ponder -> Study/Search/Feast -> Verify/Experiment/Pray

While Evangelicals "start and stop with the Bible," the LDS, begin and end with God who according to the Bible is the gold standard for truth. The LDS paradigm also illustrates the relationship of Pondering, Study, and Prayer and the operation of the Holy Ghost in each step of the process.

Joseph Smith's first vision is a great illustration. The story begins with his concern and ponderings about the eternal salvation of his soul. Such righteous desires could only be inspired by the operation of the Holy Ghost. In response to his desire, Joseph turned to the Bible to search for the answers to the deep questions of his soul. However, to his surprise, the Bible pointed him to prayer. Joseph explained his experience while reading James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God." Joseph recounted, "never did any passage of scripture come with more power to the heart of man than this did at this time to mine. It seemed to enter with great force into every feeling of my heart." Through the operation of the Holy Ghost, Joseph Smith was directed to pray to God. In response to Joseph's humble prayer, God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to him in what is called the "First Vision."

Evangelicals like to criticize LDS talk about testimony, spirit, and feelings. Many Evangelicals claim pure logic as taught by the Bible is the road to all truth. However, according to modern science, the LDS paradigm better parallels the Scientific Method. According to science, the Scientific Method is the gold stardard for empirical truth. The Scientific Method can be represented by the following formula.

Scientific Method:
Hypothesis --> Research Background --> Verify by Experimentation

LDS Paradigm:
Desire/Question/Ponder -> Study/Search/Feast -> Verify/Experiment/Pray

From the following equations, the Scientific Method and the LDS Paradigm parallel each other, except that the LDS formula involves God in each step by the operation of the Holy Ghost. Therefore, the LDS paradigm should be considered more logically correct. The LDS paradigm is more spiritually correct because it acknowledges pretext and bias, it involves research, and it employs experimentation and verification by the gold standard which is God.

Moroni's promise also teaches this same principle.

Moro 10:3-4
"if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts."

This pondering and righteous desire can only be done by the operation of the Holy Ghost. An evil spirit would never bring to mind the mercy of God.

"And when ye shall receive these things,"

This is the study of God's word with the Holy Ghost.

"I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost."

God promises that prayer in the name of Christ will be answered by the Holy Ghost. Any by the Holy Ghost we can know the truth of all things.

Meaning of Words

Some claim that the LDS have changed the meaning of many scriptural words. I admit that some of our disagreements with other Christians are due to the different meaning LDS and Orthodox attatch to words. However, LDS do not use words differently to be dishonest. Because of the Apostasy, Satan changed the meaning of many words. With the restoration, LDS are restoring words to their origional scriptural meaning. Here are a few examples.

1. Faith
False Meaning: If I just believe strong enough I can change the mind and will of God.
True Meaning: I will accept and trust the mind and will of God, even if its not what I want.

2. Hope
False Meaning: What you feel when you buy a lottery ticket.
True Meaning: The assurance you feel that you got 100% on your test because you put in the effort (thanks to God) to study and prepare sufficently.

3. Charity
False Meaning: A gift a man gives to the poor.
True Meaning: The true love of Christ that God gives in the heart of one who has faith and a hope in Chirst (best develped by serving the poor).

4. Salvation
False Meaning: Not going to Hell
True Meaning: Being saved from physical death and separation from your body as well as being saved from spiritual death which is a separation from God the Father.

5. Eternal Life and Exaltation
False Meaning: Living with God circling His throne forever.
True Meaning: Knowing God, Living like God, sitting in God's throne with Him, and enjoying eternal progression, learning, and the ability to join with God in His work of creation forever.

6. Damnation
False Meaning: Going to Hell
True Meaning: To stop ones progress or loosing the ability for eternal progression. Therefore, salvation without exaltation = damnation.

7. Worship
False Meaning: Praise God with your mouth
True Meaning: Praise God with your actions (obedience and service)

8. Blasphemy
False Meaning: Elevating the worth of man by claiming that man can be exalted
True Meaning: Denying the power of God to exalt man

9. Pride
False Meaning: Elevating the worth of man by claiming that man can be sanctified and perfected in this world by the Holy Ghost
True Meaning: Rejecting the will of God by denying the Holy Ghost

10. Love of God
False Meaning: Man is worthless and nothing, but God will save us anyways so as to have more worthless creatures circling His throne worshipping Him with our mouths only for eternity.
True Meaning: Man is nothing without God, but with God man has infinite potential. God's greatest desire is to give everything He has to His children who he has promised will sit with Him in his throne, and worship Him by participating in His work of creation abd worshipping Him with our whole bodies for eternity.

Proof, Evidence, and Testimony

Someone asked me if there were clear scientific evidence against my faith and belief how would I respond?

You cannot prove or disprove the existence of God let alone prove or disprove the Bible or the Book of Mormon. You would have to be God to prove to someone that God existed. And you likewise would have to be God to disprove that there was a God. Which creates an interesting paradox.

The only way to have a perfect knowledge of God's existence is to not only see His face, but to become like Him. Because after experiencing God you could always tell yourself that your mind and senses were playing tricks on you. You could only have proof if you actually became perfectly of one mind with God. Then you could say, as I know that I exist, I have a perfect knowledge that God exists, because, I am like Him, I am in Him, and He is in me, and I am one with Him. This is exactly the quality of proof Jesus Christ had of God's existence.

So, since we can't talk about proof and we can't talk about a perfect knowledge, we are forced to talk about evidence. But evidence can be in the eye of the beholder. I look at nature, and the organization of the heaven and the planets, and the beauty of this Earth and I think like Paul, "every house was built by some man, the builder of all things is God." However, some look at the very same date and only see The Big Bang and Darwin's evolution. It's the same data but used by both sides to support their belief.

Man's logic is fallible. We have theories and hypothesis which shift like that shifting sands of the desert and like chaff blown in a whirlwind. In science and medicine, the data we had first seemed to support one theory or treatment, the next day additional data points in the complete opposite direction.

That is why faith and the Holy Spirit is so important. The Holy Ghost will lead us into all truth. And while truth is logical. Not everything man considers logical is truth. Didn't God tell us "my ways are not thy ways, neither are my thoughts they thoughts." So, it is important to learn how to know the mind of God especially when it comes to reading God's word. Because God's word can only be understood by the spirit of prophecy. This is the highest form of knowing.

The spirit of prophecy should be the basis of all Christian testimony, faith, and belief. Didn't Moses teach, "would to God that all men were prophets and God would put His spirit on them." One of the most important thing we can learn as Christians is to recognize the influence of the Comforter which is the spirit of prophecy that Christ has left us. Christ has ascended to heaven and God is now manifest by the Holy Ghost. Will we reject the Holy Ghost like the Jew rejected Jesus?

In the OT, God was represented by prophets, and the people rejected and killed the prophets. Then in the NT, God was represented by the Son of God and His Apostles and the people rejected and killed Jesus Christ and the Apostles. Now, in the Last Days, God is represented by the Holy Ghost. We need to receive the Holy Ghost into our hearts and minds.

So, I would say that once a person has received the Holy Ghost and learned to recognize its influence, if there is data which man interprets to go against the spirit of prophecy, then you have to patiently wait on the Lord and not abandon your faith immediately, because in time additional data and understanding will ultimately turn the evidence in favor of your faith.

Recognizing the Holy Ghost: Providence or Paranoia

I think most people experience and recognize the workings of the Holy Ghost to some extent. Many people talk about having a 6th-sense, or feeling inspired or directed to live a certain way, to do certain things, or work in a particular profession. Many Christians may even feel that God has called them into a particular ministry or service. I think the Bible teaches how imperative it is for all of us to tap into this spiritual communication on a daily and even constant basis. However, with our noisy lives, it sometimes can be difficult to discern the feelings and promptings of the Holy Ghost. The Old Testament describes the voice of the Lord as a still small voice:

1 Kgs. 19: 11-12 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake: And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

After the resurrection of Jesus Christ, two disciples were walking on the path to a village called Emmaus when the resurrected Lord drew near to them and walked with them and explained how the scriptures testified of Christ and then sat with them to break bread. Then the scriptures say their eyes were opened and they recognized the Lord whereupon he vanished. Then as the disciples discussed what they had just experienced and pondered how it was that they hadn't recognized the risen Lord earlier, "they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?" (Luke 24: 32)

It was the operation of the Holy Ghost within them that caused their hearts to burn as the Lord spoke truth and spoke of how the scriptures from Moses to the prophets spoke of Him. But the disciples were slow to immediately recognize the feelings of the Holy Ghost, just as many times it can be difficult for us to feel and recognize the spirit of God immediately. But, anyone who has had a child could attest to the warm glow or "burning" they felt in their hearts when they first held their first newborn child. I can't help but think that God's Spirit would be a part of the joy and peace associated with such a tender moment. Jesus Christ taught the following about purpose and work of the Holy Ghost:

John 15: 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me.

John 14: 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 16: 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:

I have to admit, LDS meetings can appear rather boring and drab to the outside observer. While LDS meetings are warm, peaceful, and reverent; there is no loud music, no shouting, and there are no 1,000 W loud speakers. This is because loudness isn't necessary to invite the Prince of Peace. All that is required is truth. When truth is spoken, truth alone is enough to invite the Lord's presence and for the hearers to feel His peace and His still small voice.

Sometimes certain warning thoughts come to mind and I wonder if I am just being paranoid or if it's the Holy Ghost. Paul taught perfectly how to discern paranoia from providence when he spoke of the fruit of the Spirit:

Gal. 5: 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

A close friend of mine told me of an experience he had which illustrates the difference between paranoia and inspiration. While driving down a dark, winding rural highway God prevented him from getting into an accident. As he came over a hill he saw a mental image, in his minds eye, of a deer in the road. He didn't feel anxious about it, or nervous in any way. But as he came over the hill he responded to the prompting and applied the breaks. Just as he came over the hill the image he saw in his mind a few seconds before was there before him; the look of the trees, the roadway, and the deer. Had he not been breaking he would have hit the deer or wrecked trying to avoid it.

I have found that recognizing the Holy Ghost can be a very individual subject. But, in general, I agree with Paul that if a thought comes to mind that is associated with anxiety, nervousness, and worry that is probably paranoia. And it's not necessarily right or wrong to act on these instincts. But, I have found that when a warning voice comes from God to the heart and mind, it generally is accompanied by the feelings of peace, patience, and faith.

Claiming Christ: A Mormon-Evangelical Debate

Robert L. Millet (Professor of Ancient Scripture BYU) and Gerald R. McDermott (Professor of Religion Roanoke College) co-authored a new book entitled Claiming Christ: A Mormon-Evangelical Debate. With the recent presidential candidacy of LDS Mitt Romney and former Baptist minister Mike Huckabee, there has been an increase in press coverage about the LDS church and a little antagonism between Mormons and Evangelicals. This Book by Dr. Millet and McDermott seeks to find common ground between the two faith traditions as well as respectfully discussing distinctions.

Dr. McDermott concedes that Mainstream Christianity has been falsely persecuting the LDS faith. In Dr. McDermott's view, the LDS should be rightly considered a Christian faith as they recognize Jesus Christ as God and the only way to salvation. However, he does take issue with three points of LDS doctrine concerning the relationship between God and man, creation out of nothing, and modern authorized revelation as non-Biblical.

Dr. McDermott says that it is unfair for Evangelicals to claim they hold to the principle of "sola scriptura" in all their beliefs as many Evangelical beliefs such as the Trinity and other creeds are post-Biblical interpretations. So, he concedes, like Mormons, even Evangelicals interpret the Bible through the lens of their faith tradition.

While Dr. McDermott insists that Evangelical interpretation of the Bible is more Orthodox and contextually correct than LDS interpretation, he seems to contradict himself. Dr. McDermott argues that understanding correct doctrine is important in ones ability to know Christ and receive Christ's love, receive forgiveness for sin and salvation, and apply the benefits of Christ's sacrifice generally. However, he goes on to say that while Mormons could learn from Evangelical orthodoxy (correct belief), Evangelicals could learn from Mormon orthokardia (correct heart), and orthopraxis (correct behavior). That said, if Dr. McDermott believes Evangelicals have the corner on the market on doctrine, one wonders why Evangelicals aren't the "good neighbor" examples he praises Mormons to be.

Dr. McDermott criticized the popular Evangelical concept of "Lone Ranger worship" and "cheap grace." Both Dr. Millet and McDermott agree that salvation is based only on the grace alone of Jesus Christ's sacrifice and death and not works. But, they both concede that good works done with pure intent are then a manifestation of the Holy Ghost sanctifying the believer who has accepted Christ, who has been justified by His blood, and who has received of His love. The Bible and the Book of Momon teaches that the flesh is incapable of doing good on its own. Consequently, all good works come from the reception of Christ's love, and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

I think Dr. Millet could have argued stronger for the LDS views on Christ, the pre-existence, creation and modern revelation (including the Book of Mormon). He seems to concede that while the Bible can be interpreted to support all these doctrines, many are more clearly based on mainly extra-biblical sources and modern revelation. Dr. Millet seems content to present the LDS message and is happy to allow Dr. McDermott to argue with him in favor of LDS Christianity.

Dr. McDermott happily presents what he believes is the perfect Biblical parallel to explains the Mormons. He likens the LDS people to the Samaritans of the New Testament. Jesus Christ did preach among them and used them as examples of Christ-like love (parable of the Good Samaritan). Notwithstanding, the Jews considered them apostate and persecuted them. However, Dr. McDermott forgets that according to the Bible the Jews at Jerusalem were probably considered more apostate than the Samaritans.

Dr. Millet and McDermott agree in the end that both Evangelicals and LDS can pray together, and they can work together on social issues of common concern such as strengthening family and community values. While Dr. Millet said he enjoyed attending Evangelical services, Dr. McDermott seemed to discourage evangelicals from worshiping with the LDS saying that our differences in belief on God would make proper worship "impossible."

Mormon Scientists: Proper Questioning and Experimenting

I feel that what makes the LDS Church different that any other church is that its members are expected to question every doctrine. Now, when I say question everything, I do not mean doubt everything. There is a proper way to "study [principles] out in your mind." Proper experimenting and questioning should not be considered doubting and is never done through rebellion, contention or descent.

I try to question everything in the church by performing what Alma in the Book of Mormon refers to as a faith experiment (Alma 32: 27). The first step in this faith experiment is to desire to know the answer to your question and having faith in the principle (Ether 12: 6), I then try doing it (John 7: 17), and finally I try praying about it (James 1: 5). And, without fail, I have recieved the same inspired answers as the Brethern of the church (John 16: 13). That is because we are using the same "Spiritual Method" to communicate with the same God. In this way, God is able to bring believers to a unity of the faith (Eph. 4: 13).

Now I do not mean to say I have all the answers, because I don't. And, please do not misunderstand; I do not condone an attitude of, "I'm not gonna follow until I get my own answer." God has choosen a prophet and we should always follow with an attitude of "faith obedience." We should follow the prophet even when we don't know all the "why's" because we already have a witness of God, of Jesus Christ, or the Book of Mormon, of Joseph Smith, and the restored gospel. We should be expected to act upon that knowledge which God has already given to us. How can we expect to build upon our knowledge when we don't act upon that which we already have? Therefore, "Faith obedience" is the first step in the experiment upon the world. And only then , after the "trial of our faith," will the additional witness come.

It seems to the outsider that the LDS churches expectation of "faith obedience" is more "blind obedience" and "mindless conformity." However, what outsiders fail to realize is that LDS members already have a spiritual witness of the foundation principles (prerequisite for baptism). Therefore, the LDS church expects its members to act according to that knowledge. That is why it seems like our leaders expect unquestioning conformity, because we have already questioned and we have already recieved answers. Members don't need to keep on asking the same questions over and over. We are expected to live according to what we already know and to move on to higher questions. Ofcoarse, as we do this, our witness of the foundation questions are renewed and refreshed continually.

LDS Leadership has righly taught to beware of intellectualism. Intellectuals, as I have come to understand the term, tend to question but focus more on the lack of answers, defining what is not known, and value doubt. Simply defining what is not known is not true science. True science is about experimenting, evidence, discovery, and solving the unknown. Therefore, the process that the scriptures and LDS leadership describe to gain a witness/testimony/revelation of the truth is perfect science. Therefore, I think we could define a new class of LDS scholar who continually "experiments upon the word" through a process of "faith obedience", prayer, and revelation. All LDS members who follow this "Spirtual Method" and perform "faith experiments" could be considered an LDS Spiritual Empiricists or Mormon Scientists.

Mormon's aren't just expected to be spiritual empiricists alone. While proof does not exist, there is ample tangible, physical, 5-sense empirical evidence to support belief. Christ taught that "By their fruits ye shall know them" (Matt. 7: 16, 20). Therefore, I am led to ask: "am I happy?", "am I more prosperous than I otherwise would have been?" And for me the evidence is in overwelming support of God and the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. The LDS theory or theology has empirical validation. According to the research, If I follow the program I can expect to be, on average: wealthier, healthier, happier, live longer, be more educated, and have a stronger family. For the LDS membership, these are the fruit/reward of true Christian faith and discipleship.

Testimony: The Highest Form of Knowing

Today in LDS Suday School (Elder's Quorem) we talked about Elder Uchtdorf (Member of the Quorem of the 12 Apostles) talk entitled, "The Power of Testimony" given during October 2006 LDS General Conference.

Our class discussed that a testimony is knowledge or witness gained in a different way than the usual ways we gain knowledge or know things. The knowledge and witness that comprises a testimony is not based solely on man's intellect, reasoning, or logic alone. Although, the substance of a testimony is rightly considered to be composed of the most pure intelligence, reason, and logic possible. The substance of a testimony is instead derived by inspiration, revelation, or direct communication by God through the medium of the Holy Spirit. Therefore it both makes sense to the mind and the heart together, and therefore is the highest form of knowing (Matt. 16: 17)(Num. 11: 29).


A testimony is comprised of 5 basic components but can include any other knowledge that is spiritually obtained. However, these first 5 pillars of a spiritual witness are what God considers essential. They include:

1. The existence, reality, and nature of God the Eternal Father and the relationship of man to God as literal spiritual offspring.

2. Jesus Christ is the literal "only begotten" Son of God and who atoned for our sins and resurrected, recieved eternal life, and now stands on the right hand of our Heavenly Father thereby becoming the only way to return to God and inherit salvation, exaltation, and eternal life.

3. That God reveals his will and plan for his spirit children through chosen men known as prophets like Abraham, Moses, and Isaiah and that he continues to call prophets in these, the Last Days, beginning with Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith saw God the Father and Jesus Christ in vision and was called to "restore" (not protest or reform) the only true Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

4. The Book of Mormon is the word of God and like the Bible, it is a testament that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

5. That President Gordon B. Hinkley is God's chosen prophet, seer, and revelator today and speaks the mind and will of God unto us.

Like Peter in the New Testament, I posess a testimony revealed to me by God through his Holy Spirit. My testimony developed through desiring to know the truth, years of study and prayer, and willingness to accept and live accordingly. And this spiritual witness has not just been spiritually confirmed and validated once, but is continually and continuously reaffirmed. Elder Uchtdorf explains in his talk how anyone can recieve their own spiritual witness of these same essential truths. The steps include 1. Desire (Alma 32: 27). 2. Search, Ponder, Pray (Ask Duh!) (Matt. 7:7) 3. Obey, Do, Follow (John 7: 17).

Some evangelicals will on one hand criticize LDS for following our "feellings." But then, on the other hand, they turn around and say they "feel" they have been called and "inspired" by God into their ministry. This is clearly an example of double speak. I have heard many evangelicals go on to argue that their belief in the Bible is purely "logically" based. They then go on to tell me about their several degree, PhDs in divinity school, and about all the archeological evidence to support the Bible. I just am left to think, "You cannot be serious!" I don't know how it is possible to consider the parting of the Red Sea, stopping the Earth in its rotation, surviving being thrown into a furnace or den of lions, surviving being swallowed by a whale, changing water to wine, or coming back form the dead as logical. There are absolutely no scientific evidence that these events actually occured of could occur. And belief based on archeological evidence? "Come on!" This argument couldnt be more flawed. If archeological evidence made a book scripture, then anything historically based could be considered scripture.

In their defence, these evangelicals criticize the LDS concept of "following your feelings" and deny the power of inspiration that comes by the Holy Ghost because they equate it with the Pentecostal idea of the Holy Spirit. This ofcourse creates a false dichotomy. Just because another faith has a flawed concept of the Holy Spirit doesn't mean that ours is wrong too. The LDS concept of inspiration and personal revelation by the Holy Ghost is nothing like the Pentecostal concept. LDS recognize that the most important spiritual skill one can master while in this life is to learn to decern ones own natural emotions, adrenaline excitement, lustful passions from the quiet, patient, warm, happy and peaceful feelings of the Holy Ghost (Gal. 5: 22).

Almost every living person has experienced the influence of the Spirit at one time or another as they have sought the will of God when making an important career, family or personal decision. The Bible is clear that The Holy Ghost testifies of Christ, it will teach us all things, and lead us into all truth. The Holy Ghost is the still small voice Elijah felt on the mountain top, it is the "burning bosom" of the 2 disciples on the road to Emmaus, and it is what caused those on the day of Pentecost to feel "pricked in their hearts" and declare, "Men and brethern, what shall we do?"

The Book of Mormon answers that most important question with regard to gaining a testimony. At the end of the book is a promise by the prophet-writer, Moroni, who exhorts, "And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things" (Moro. 10:4-5).

What is it like to recieve personal revelation from God?

"the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice" (1Kgs19).

I know I have prayed about decisions in my life and felt inspired, prompted by God's spirit (still small voice in my heart and mind) to go down a road I would not have thought to go down on my own. That has made all the difference.

When I have a choice to make, I prayerfully read the scriptures to know God's will. I weigh the pro's and cons and then make the best decision I can make on my own. Then I kneel down in a private place and petition God in the name of Jesus Christ (essential) to reveal to me if my decision is also his will. And then I listen. A "yes" answer feels to me like a warm, peaceful feeling in my heart and a satisfied "it makes sense" feeling in my spiritual mind. However, sometimes the answer doesnt make complete sense to my scientific worldly mind. A "no" answer feels like the issue is still clouded or out-of-focus. Many times I get a "be patient, you're not ready for the answer yet" feeling.

"Did I not speak peace to your mind concerning the matter? What greater witness can you have than from God?" (DC6).

Revelation from God through the feelings of the Holy Spirit must be consistent with the "fruit of the spirit." "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law" (Gal 5).

A few times I have been driving down the road in the car and a spontaneous, irrational thought will come to mind, "there will be an accident in the next intersection." That thought will be accompanied by feelings of fear, chill, or a rush of adrenalin. Then I think, "Was that thought from God, was that a spiritual warning?" I have found that such thoughts when accompanied by fear and adrenalin are not from God. "for perfect love casteth out all fear" (Mor8).

I have had other instances where a similar warning or direction had come into mind yet the thought was accompanied by "the fruit of the spirit" complete peace, calm, and focus. I have found that to be the voice of God. I am still training myself to listen and follow. "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid" (John14).