Justin Martyr: The Father and Son

Many Evangelical Christians say LDS are not Christian because we worship a different God and Christ. They say because we do not accept the Nicene Creed of the First Ecumenical Council of the Catholic Church in the 3rd Century AD (which is the basis for the Trinity/Triune God Doctrine) that we worship a false Christ and a False God. LDS openly reject the Nicene Creed and and point out that our doctrine better reflects that of 1st Century Christianity than 3rd Century Christianity and tradition as reflected in the Creeds.

Back then when the debate raged over the Nicene Creed. Arians have been described as trying to deny the deity of Christ. While the denial of Jesus as God is wrong, the opponents of the Nicene Creed were correct in their objection to the word "homoousious" or "of the same substance" which is used in the Nicene Creed. While the whole of the Nicene Creed is an accurate description of the Godhead, the word "homoousious" is interpreted to describe a mysterious and incomprehensible relationship between the Father and the Son. Many feel that the mystery of how God can be 3 Persons but 1 Being is wrong because it is by definition incomprehensible. Instead, many felt the Nicene Creed should have said that God the Father and God the Son were not "homousious" or "of the same substance" but "of similar substance". To put it in other words, the Father and the Son could be said to both be composed of pure gold but separate and distinct gold bars. The Son was not divided off from the Father but as Justin Martyr would say, the Son stands next to the Father in the same way a fire can be kindled from another fire and stand separate from the first without diminishing from the first.

A major issue dealt with in Justin's argument with Trypho is that the Jews rejected the Christian's acceptance of Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah because Jesus Christ and the Christians claimed that Christ was God. Before the Babylonian captivity the Jews had a serious problem with Baal and Ashtoreth worship. These idols are excavated in Israel today. But after the captivity, the pendulum swung too far the other way, and the Jews became hyper-monotheists to the point that they could not accept Christ as the Messiah because Christ also claimed he is the Son of God. Therefore, Justin takes care the argue that it was the pre-existent Jesus Christ who appeared in the Old Testament to Moses and Abraham. According to Justin, Jehovah of the Old Testament is Jesus Christ of the New Testament.

Justin Martyr comments to Trypho Chapter 56. God who appeared to Moses is distinguished from God the Father
Justin: Reverting to the Scriptures, I shall endeavour to persuade you, that He who is said to have appeared to Abraham, and to Jacob, and to Moses, and who is called God, is distinct from Him who made all things—numerically, I mean, not [distinct] in will. For I affirm that He has never at any time done anything which He who made the world—above whom there is no other God—has not wished Him both to do and to engage Himself with. . . . It is not on this ground solely that it must be admitted absolutely that some other one is called Lord by the Holy Spirit besides Him who is considered Maker of all things; . . . 'Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever. A sceptre of equity is the sceptre of Your kingdom: You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity: therefore God, even Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your fellows.' If, therefore, you assert that the Holy Spirit calls some other one God and Lord, besides the Father of all things and His Christ, answer me; for I undertake to prove to you from Scriptures themselves, that He whom the Scripture calls Lord is not one of the two angels that went to Sodom, but He who was with them, and is called God, that appeared to Abraham.

Justin Martyr comments to Trypho Chapter LXI—Wisdom is begotten of the Father, as fire from fire.“
I shall give you another testimony, my friends,” said I, “from the Scriptures, that God begat before all creatures a Beginning,[who was] a certain rational power [proceeding] from Himself, who is called by the Holy Spirit, now the Glory of the Lord, now the Son, again Wisdom, again an Angel, then God, and then Lord and Logos; and on another occasion He calls Himself Captain, when He appeared in human form to Joshua the son of Nave (Nun). For He can be called by all those names, since He ministers to the Father’s will, and since He was begotten of the Father by an act of will; just as we see happening among ourselves: for when we give out some word, we beget the word; yet not by abscission, so as to lessen the word means both the thinking power or reason which produces ideas and the expression of these ideas. When we utter a thought, the utterance of it does not diminish the power of thought in us, though in one sense the thought has gone away from us. [which remains] in us, when we give it out: and just as we see also happening in the case of a fire, which is not lessened when it has kindled [another], but remains the same; and that which has been kindled by it likewise appears to exist by itself, not diminishing that from which it was kindled. The Word of Wisdom, who is Himself this God begotten of the Father of all things, and Word, and Wisdom, and Power, and the Glory of the Begetter.

Justin Martyr comments to Trypho Chapter 59. God distinct from the Father conversed with Moses
Justin: Permit me, further, to show you from the book of Exodus how this same One, who is both Angel, and God, and Lord, and man, and who appeared in human form to Abraham and Isaac, appeared in a flame of fire from the bush, and conversed with Moses . . . . Have you perceived, sirs, that this very God whom Moses speaks of as an Angel that talked to him in the flame of fire, declares to Moses that He is the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob?

Justin Martyr comments to Trypho Chapter 75. It is proved that Jesus was the name of God in the book of Exodus
Justin: Moreover, in the book of Exodus we have also perceived that the name of God Himself which, He says, was not revealed to Abraham or to Jacob, was Jesus, and was declared mysteriously through Moses. Thus it is written: 'And the Lord spoke to Moses, Say to this people, Behold, I send My angel before your face, to keep you in the way, to bring you into the land which I have prepared for you. Give heed to Him, and obey Him; do not disobey Him. For He will not draw back from you; for My name is in Him.' Exodus 23:20-21 Now understand that He who led your fathers into the land is called by this name Jesus, and first called Auses Numbers 13:16. (Oshea). For if you shall understand this, you shall likewise perceive that the name of Him who said to Moses, 'for My name is in Him,' was Jesus.

Justin Martyr comments to Trypho Chapter LXII.—The words “Let Us make man” agree with the testimony of Proverbs."
And the same sentiment was expressed, my friends, by the word of God [written] by Moses, when it indicated to us, with regard to Him whom it has pointed out, that God speaks in the creation of man with the very same design, in the following words: ‘Let Us make man after our image and likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heaven, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creeping things that creep on the earth. And God created man: after the image of God did He create him; male and female created He them. And God blessed them, and said, Increase and multiply, and fill the earth, and have power over it. And that you may not change the [force of the] words just quoted, and repeat what your teachers assert,—either that God said to Himself, ‘Let Us make,’ just as we, when about to do something, oftentimes say to ourselves, ‘Let us make;’ or that God spoke to the elements, to wit, the earth and other similar substances of which we believe man was formed, ‘Let Us make,’—I shall quote again the words narrated by Moses himself, from which we can indisputably learn that [God] conversed with some one who was numerically distinct from Himself, and also a rational Being. These are the words: ‘And God said, Behold, Adam has become as one of us, to know good and evil.’ In saying, therefore, ‘as one of us,’ [Moses] has declared that [there is a certain] number of persons associated with one another, and that they are at least two. For I would not say that the dogma of that heresy which is said to be among you is true, or that the teachers of it can prove that [God] spoke to angels, or that the human frame was the workmanship of angels. But this Offspring, which was truly brought forth from the Father, was with the Father before all the creatures, and the Father communed with Him; even as the Scripture by Solomon has made clear, that He whom Solomon calls Wisdom, was begotten as a Beginning before all His creatures and as Offspring by God,

Justin Maryr comments to Trypho Chapter Chapter 128 The Word is sent not as an inanimate power, but as a person begotten of the Father's substance
And do not suppose, sirs, that I am speaking superfluously when I repeat these words frequently: but it is because I know that some wish to anticipate these remarks, and to say that the power sent from the Father of all which appeared to Moses, or to Abraham, or to Jacob, is called an Angel because He came to men (for by Him the commands of the Father have been proclaimed to men); is called Glory, because He appears in a vision sometimes that cannot be borne; is called a Man, and a human being, because He appears arrayed in such forms as the Father pleases; and they call Him the Word, because He carries tidings from the Father to men: but maintain that this power is indivisible and inseparable from the Father, just as they say that the light of the sun on earth is indivisible and inseparable from the sun in the heavens; as when it sinks, the light sinks along with it; so the Father, when He chooses, say they, causes His power to spring forth, and when He chooses, He makes it return to Himself. In this way, they teach, He made the angels. But it is proved that there are angels who always exist, and are never reduced to that form out of which they sprang. And that this power which the prophetic word calls God, as has been also amply demonstrated, and Angel, is not numbered [as different] in name only like the light of the sun but is indeed something numerically distinct, I have discussed briefly in what has gone before; when I asserted that this power was begotten from the Father, by His power and will, but not by abscission, as if the essence of the Father were divided; as all other things partitioned and divided are not the same after as before they were divided: and, for the sake of example, I took the case of fires kindled from a fire, which we see to be distinct from it, and yet that from which many can be kindled is by no means made less, but remains the same.

While some say that Justin is making a point here about the Father and Son being one essence. What Justin is saying is that the Son is not a chip off the ol' block or a piece of the Father. The Father is complete and separate alone. Yet while the Son stands as a separate Being and Person and Personage and Individual of the Father, the Son did nothing of Himself, but came to do the will of the Father, speak the words of the Father, and manifest the full power of the Father in all things. Therefore, God the Son is one in purpose, unified will, and power with God the Father.

Justin Martyr discusses several other interesting doctrinal points such as Jewish scribes altering the Septuagint and the Old Testament and removing plain and precious portions. Justin also discusses the office and work of the Seventy. And Justin discusses why Christians worship on Sunday, the 8th day or first day of the week instead of the Jewish Sabbath.

The Beast and Its Image

The following presents a very interesting interpretation of the following scripture:

Rev. 14:9-11 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

John is using 3 symbols here. The first is the beast, the second is the image of the beast, and the third in the mark of the Beast. Now John warns us that the true believers are not to worship the beast or its image. Now we know from Daniel that the 7-headed, 10-horned beast is Rome. In the last days it would represent the Catholic Church. In Daniel 7, Daniel comments that Rome at the time of Christ would fight against the Saints, wear them out, and prevail against them. Also, that the Roman Empire would seek to pervert the doctrine by changing the times and laws of the gospel. We see this happen after Emperor Constantine makes Catholicism the official religion of the Roman Empire.

Dan 7 :21, 25 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; . . . And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

So, the Beast is Rome and the Catholic Church today. But what does the image represent? The image is the Protestantism and Evangelicalism. Protestant churches broke off from the Catholic Church because many recognized that the teachings of the church did not fit what the Bible taught. Unfortunately, the Protestant Reformation which produced the many Protestant Denominations and Non-Denominations didn't fall far from the tree. And John likens these churches to an image of the original.

Lastly we have the mark of the Beast which both those who worship the Beast (Catholic Church) or its image (Protestantism and Evangelicalism) take upon themselves. Thinking about what Catholicism and Protestantism have in common, only one doctrine comes to mind. That common aspect is their belief in the Trinity Doctrine and the Nicene Creed which stems from the First Ecumenical Council of the Catholic Church. According to this article, belief in the Trinity Doctrine is the Mark of the Beast.

What is wrong with the Trinity Doctrine and the Nicene Creed? The Nicene Creed only has one word and concept that is not from the Bible. That word is "Homousios" and it means that Heavenly Father, the Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are of one undivided substance. And that little addition causes all sorts of problems when it comes to a proper understanding of the true nature of God, the relationship of the Father and the Son, and man's relationship to God.

When it comes to the Nicene Creed and the Trinity Doctine, I only take exception with the word "Homousios" meaning the Father and Son are One undivided substance. The LDS understanding is very close to the Trinity Doctrine. But remember a little leaven, leaveneth the whole lump. Latter-Day Saints proclaim the divinity of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God. According to the LDS Godhead: God is 3 Persons, 3 Personages, and 1 God. The Following scriptures illustrate how the Bible teaches that God the Father and God the Son are One God in purpose but 2 distinct personages as Joseph Smith saw in the First Vision.

John 14: 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Jesus Christ who is God and who is with the Father says the Father is greater then Himself.

Acts 7: 55-56 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Stephen sees Jesus Christ standing on the right hand of the Father.

Gen. 1: 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

God the Father and the Son converse about the creation of man.

Gen. 3: 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

God the Father and the Son note that man has come to know good as they do suggesting that God is speaking to an intelligent being who is numerically distinct from Himself according to Justin Martyr to Trypho.

Matt. 26: 39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Jesus Christ expresses that his will is distinct, separate but unified with the Father

Matt. 5: 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The Father is perfect and complete alone. The separation of Jesus Christ from the Father does not diminish the Father.

Matt. 3: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

At the Baptism of Jesus Christ, the heavens open and the voice of Heavenly Father is heard separate from the Son.

John 17: 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Christ prays to the Father that His Apostles may be one and unified in purpose as He is one and unified with the Father.

"Those Abominable Creeds", by Ron Huggins

I appreciate the thoughtfulness and effort that Ron Huggins put into this lecture. However, I have a few issues with several of the points of this lecture as it relates to LDS doctrine.

#1 Ron Huggins talks about an evolving view or understanding of the nature of God by Joseph Smith and then uses the Nicene Creed to contrast this to the orthodox view.
A. Yes, I do not doubt that the understanding of Joseph Smith evolved as more of the restoration was unfolded to his view.

B. Most critics of the LDS church point to the several accounts of the First Vision to support the claim that Joseph changed his tune about God. Really, it comes down to the first written account by Joseph Smith of the First Vision where he failed to mention that he had seen 2 separate beings standing next to one another and had seen Jesus Christ standing on the right hand of the Father. However, what is not being said is that the explanation for this omission was not Joseph changing his story but that in relating the experience the first time he was trying to make a parallel between himself and the experience of Paul the Apostle who saw and spoke to Christ only as opposed to Stephen who saw Jesus Christ standing on the right hand of God (which we interpret as referring to God the Father). There could be a myriad of reasons for the omission other than Joseph intentially trying to deceive which Mr Huggins suggests at the end.

C. If anything demonstrates an evolution of thought it is the Nicene Creed. We see its origin in the Creed of Cesarea, and how it changed to become the Nicene Creed of 325, of which there are several versions, which then evolved into the Creed of Nicene-Constantinople 381, and on and on until the modern creeds that are recited in various churches today.

#2 The Lecturer makes a claim that Joseph Smith taught polytheism or henothesism.
A. These terms carry an emotionally-charged meaning which is associated with the worship of many Gods which results in a doctrine that teaches against the existence of absolute truth and righteousness. Because, if there are many Gods, then what is true and what is right depends on which God you are worshiping. Therefore using the words polytheism or henothesim in associating with Joseph Smith as the general public define them today is a very unfair characterization.

B. I think a better term to describe Joseph Smith concept of God is Monolatrism. Monolatrism allows for the existence of other gods, but only allows for the worship and obedience of one God.

C. What Joseph Smith taught is that Our Heavenly Father is God and Jesus Christ is God, that they are 2 separate beings, 2 distinct persons but they constitute One God because they are perfectly unified and one in purpose.

#3 Next the Lecture calls into question the LDS claim that we believe all the Bible and states that for us to get some of our interpretations we are forced to separate words from their meanings.
A. some meaning of words have changed. For instance faith has turned into words without action, hope has turned from an assurance to what happens when your picking lottery numbers, and the word charity has changed meaning from the pure love of Christ to become a can of beans donated to the food pantry.

B. But if anyone has to separate words from their meanings, it is anyone who accepts the trinity doctrine which claims that God is 1 being and 3 persons at the same time.

#4 Next the Lecturer discusses the several Isaiah passages which say there in not God formed before or after Jehovah and that beside Him there is no other God, and there is none like Him.

A. These verses don't exclude monolatrism. LDS interpret these verses in context to mean that there are no other Gods beside Jehovah that will save Israel and that Israel should worship. These verses do not necessarily mean that there are absolutely no other beings in the universe which can be rightly called gods (lowercase g).

B. remember that the Jews and the Arians used these same verses of scripture to deny that Jesus Christ is God.

C. I appreciate the point the lecture makes that if it is the Father speaking in Isaiah then wouldn't he have known about the Son? The heavenly speaker in Isaiah obviously did know that Christ would come and that Christ is also God so we are forced to clarify the meaning in context.

#5 Next he discusses the LDS doctrine that Christ is the First-Born spirit son of God and the only begotten son of God in the flesh.

A. I like the wording of the Creed of Cesarea which states that Jesus Christ is the “first-born of every creature and was begotten before all ages.” LDS also believe that Christ was begotten and not made. But we also believe that man was likewise spiritually begotten and not made. Jesus Christ being the first.

B. But remember that the act of generation and creation is not from nothing, and this fact allows for the Biblical teaching that Jesus Christ is self-existent and has always existed. The opposite of eternal is not created and visa versa. Created and Begotten things can be eternal because create as well as beget is not ex nihlo or from nothing. If this were the case, man who is created, could never become eternal and inherit eternal life.

C. As far as separating meaning from words, LDS believe that Christ was both the first spirit begotten of the Father (not conjured), and that he is also preeminent over all other creations. This is in contrast to the lecture saying that first-born doest necessarily have to mean first.

#6 Mr. Huggins then compares and contrasts the LDS view of God and the orthodox view in terms of 1 Col 1:15-18. He claims that to fit the LDS definition of monolatrism we would have to change the wording of 1 Col 1 to fit our theology or accept that the LDS God is not all-powerful.

A. Actually you don't. Verse 15 reads, “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible” Yes, all things weer created, organized, formed, and arranged for operation in heaven and in earth. This doesn't say as God created all things in all the heavens, it says God created all thing in this heaven and in this earth.

B. I shouldn't make the same mistake. The word “this” before heaven is not in the text any more than the word “all” but this is how LDS interpret it and in doing so, no changes have to be made to the text.

C. Therefore, our God is all-powerful, and all-knowing and if there are other gods of other universes, they would not be more powerful or more knowing than our God.

D. But if you want to compare power and are worried if the LDS doctrine properly elevates God, what good is all that power if God cannot pro-create (figuratively speaking). The LDS concept of God is the living God who is the God of the living and who has power to elevate man to become like him. So, ask yourself, can the God your pastor describes do that? The God of the Bible who Christ called Our Heavenly Father can.

#7 Next the Lecturer talks about the word “homoousios” or God and Christ being one undivided substance, one undivided essence, or the same being.

A. This is the only problem with the Nicene Creed that the LDS take exception with. There isn't an Orthodox Trinitarian believer that can explain how 3 divided persons can be 1 undivided being. In fact many say God is a mystery and it cannot be understood or adequately explained. Most explanations using water, or an egg do a better job describing modalism than they do trinitarianism.

B. LDS believe that God the Father is God, Jesus Christ is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. Together they are One God, but 3 distinct persons, 3 separate beings, with 3 individual wills that are perfectly unified into 1 purpose.

#8 Next Mr. Huggins suggests that LDS doctrine about man being also spiritually begotten as Christ was, cheapens or devalues Christ.
A. This doctrine does not devalue Christ, but only serves to elevate man. And that is what the doctrine of Christ does is to elevate and exalt man. Christ came to raise man from our fallen state to return to God and to help man become like God as He is. Again, a doctrine that elevates man does not devalue God.

B. This doctrine also is important as it relates to how we as humans view other who are not our our faith. Because all mankind are spiritually begotten of the same Heavenly Father we all have the seeds within us to become like God through Christ. And although we must become adopted sons and daughters of Christ to realize this, all mankind have this infinite potential and all are my brothers and sisters. You don't have to be Christian for me to consider you my brother.

#9 The Lecture make a brief statement questioning why if the Book of Mormon were originally written in Reformed Egyptian would we find KJV language in the Book of Mormon.
A. The Ancient American Nephites whose prophets wrote the books in the Book of Mormon came from Jerusalem and spoke Hebrew and wrote it using paleo-Hebrew or Phoenician script. The prophet Mormon makes a comment that they would have used this script to make his abridgment, which constitutes the Book of Mormon, had that plates been larger, but to preserve space, he made the abridgment using reformed Egyptian characters. The language was still Hebrew, but the script or alphabet was Egyptian.

B. God as well as Joseph Smith were well acquainted with the language of the KJV. So when a particular idea was expressed, Joseph was inspired to use KJV language to translate it. This facilitates the reader in comparing verses teaching similar things. When I am reading the Bible and come across a particular phrase, I often times think, ahhh that sounds like something in the Book of Mormon and visa versa and I can then easily look up and compare both passages.

#10 Lastly, the lecturer suggests that Joseph Smith's teachings and LDS doctrine undermines faith in the Bible.
A. Again, as was said by various sources, LDS believe the Bible 100%. There isn't a verse in the Bible that I do not accept. It is the traditional or so-called orthodox interpretations of the Bible that we don't accept.

B. There are many facets of Christian worship that are described in the Bible that are not a part of Evangelical worship. When it comes to these, Evangelicals are forced to say that that aspect of worship ended with Christ or has yet to be instituted leading into the tribulation and the second coming of Christ. In Contrast, the LDS church accepts that the apostasy and restoration of temples, and priesthoods, and proper church organization has already occurred, the LDS find more literal meaning out of more of the Bible than any other Christians.

C. Mr. Huggins criticizes LDS for claiming that some truths have been lost from the Bible. And while he is kindly talking about millstones and drowning people, he seems to ignore the history of the Bible that many books of the Bible could have originally been written in Egyptian, Phonetician, and Aramaic, before being translated in to Classical Hebrew, and that with each translation ambiguity of language can creep into the text. It is also a fact that there are many writings referred to within the Bible itself which are lost. This is in addition to the fact that there are currently thousands of Bible translations. 1 Cor. 9: 14 is quoted 50% of the time to read “Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live the gospel.” and 50% of the time “Should earn a living from the gospel.” That kind of thing is not inconsequential. And there are many similar examples. God has promised that through scripture and His church he would bring us to a unity of the Faith. But what we see from the Bible is a mass of different denominations and non-denominations who all claim to believe the Bible 100% while everyone else is a picker and a chooser. This lack of unity is not due to anything wrong in the Bible but a loss of plainness and unambiguity which God has restored with the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon clarifies the Bible and allows us to interpret its words correctly.

D. But lastly and most importantly Mr. Huggins seems to be urging us that LDS should have more faith in the Bible. But I would invite all Christians to hearken to the Bible and have increased faith in God and Christ and the in the Holy Ghost. The Bible teaches that Christ promised all believers the gift of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost enables every believer the enjoyment of a personal relationship with God. The Bible points us to God. It invites us to Ask and receive, knock and it will be opened unto us.

And it is through asking God Our Eternal Father in the name of Christ, that God revealed to me through the power and operation of the Holy ghost that God, Our Heavenly Father lives, Jesus is the Christ, that the Book of Mormon is His word together with the Bible, that the Father and the Son appeared to Joseph Smith in the First Vision, and that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is Christs church on the Earth today. And I give my witness and testimony in the Holy name of Jesus Christ Amen.